Foods & Supplements
11-21-2022, 09:06 AM
#1
FitDay Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 1
Foods & Supplements
Q:
Now, when I say “need” I mean optimal. There is a large difference between what works and what works best. Lets dive into the research we have available on optimal protein requirements for naturals. Now, when I say “research available,” assume I will only account for the most up to date analysis on what studies I consider well conducted. Most of the research out there in general is dog poop. In fact, the other day I read a systematic review on systematic review quality; so this was a study on the overall quality of studies. Another long story short, 90% plus studies are worthless, poorly conducted pieces of paper that will never be cited again after they’re published. One of the reasons I do not add references to these mini articles is because most people do not read them or know how to interpret them properly. Simply adding links to PubMed papers does not help me educate the masses. Most people that will read this are as I described in my previous article, laymen (the everyday Joe). However, If you would like any of the research I will briefly raise in any of my texts, please do not hesitate to ask.
Anyway, lets get to it. Optimal protein requirements for naturals vs optimal protein requirements for Big Johnno on the juice. There is a man names Brad Schoenfeld and you can see all of his work here:
I really have to hand it to this man. He has collaborated with other greats in the field to determine what the optimal training and nutritional requirements are for gaining muscle. He is also very reasonable in his conclusions and extrapolations of the data. Remember, the data are guidelines and not absolute mathematics everyone should stick to; you need to play around with what works best for you but what is provided from people like Brad Schoenfeld is an accurate starting point. There will be a degree of variance from person to person and also from natural to PED user. I have read a lot of his work and most of it is very well controlled and conducted research. I can tell you from the research that 1.6-2.2 grams of protein per kilo of bodyweight, split into 4 meals daily is the median optimal dose and split of protein for gaining muscle in natural, well trained individuals. Keep in mind once again, that this is the average. So thats about 160-220 grams of protein per day if you weigh 100 kg. Just keep in mind consuming more than you need is not detrimental, but consuming less than you need is. I know which choice I make everyday. I always shoot for a little more than I probably need.
“So what if we are taking a boat load of steroids and other performance enhancing drugs then? How much protein do we need now?”
Well, actually, anabolic steroids and other PED are very protein sparing. If anything, you could get away with less protein. Research shows that subjects (untrained) who were natural and did weights, gained less muscle than those who did not do weights and took steroids. That is how powerful these drugs are. But getting away with less is not what is optimal. We want to know what’s optimal. Common belief is that because you can gain many more times the amount muscle in one year on steroids compared to if you were natural, you should eat many more times the amount of protein in one day. Before I throw some rationale and math at this equation, lets all be clear that no official research has been done to determine the results of this hypothesis to follow.
A hypothetical to explain this best. For the sake of this explanation, lets pretend these two individuals in the following example are identical twins in every way, shape and form and the only thing they did different was that one twin took steroids and the other did not. A completely controlled experiment so to speak.
Lets say Twin A is a natural who weighs 100 kg and a Twin B is about to start his first ever steroid cycle who is also 100 kg and we are going to juice this dude to the eye balls! Lets say his first cycle is going to last the entire year and he will be monitored by the world’s best health physicians and steroid experts. If the natural needs around 220 grams of protein per day, lets bump it up to 240 grams of protein to be totally sure. Over the course of the year, the natural body-builder gained 5 kg of muscle. Wow! That is amazing for a natural at 100 kg. Well, the other dude on steroids gained a total of 20 kg of muscle in that same year. Wow! That is freaky, even for newbie steroid gains. That is a 15 kg difference. 2/3 of muscle tissue is fluid, leaving around 1/3 of actual tissue. For simplicity sake, consider the following math. 1/3 of 15 kg or 15,000 grams is 5000 grams of tissue. The dude on steroids gained 5000 grams more of actual tissue than the natural bodybuilder. What is 5000 grams divided by 365 days in one year? 13.69 grams. 13.69 grams extra protein per day than the natural would be required for the juiced up guy to gain an extra 15 kg of mass. That is 253.69 grams of protein per day. Hardly the amount many would assume would be required. So in conclusion, the protein requirements for a natural vs someone on performance drugs are likely going to be similar. Adding a little extra to be sure seems to be the best way to rule out any speculation because adding a little more protein is not detrimental to your gains or your health.
I hope this helps! David.
Do you need more protein or less protein if you are using anabolic steroids?
A: Well, the short answer is yes, but only a fraction more.Now, when I say “need” I mean optimal. There is a large difference between what works and what works best. Lets dive into the research we have available on optimal protein requirements for naturals. Now, when I say “research available,” assume I will only account for the most up to date analysis on what studies I consider well conducted. Most of the research out there in general is dog poop. In fact, the other day I read a systematic review on systematic review quality; so this was a study on the overall quality of studies. Another long story short, 90% plus studies are worthless, poorly conducted pieces of paper that will never be cited again after they’re published. One of the reasons I do not add references to these mini articles is because most people do not read them or know how to interpret them properly. Simply adding links to PubMed papers does not help me educate the masses. Most people that will read this are as I described in my previous article, laymen (the everyday Joe). However, If you would like any of the research I will briefly raise in any of my texts, please do not hesitate to ask.
Anyway, lets get to it. Optimal protein requirements for naturals vs optimal protein requirements for Big Johnno on the juice. There is a man names Brad Schoenfeld and you can see all of his work here:
I really have to hand it to this man. He has collaborated with other greats in the field to determine what the optimal training and nutritional requirements are for gaining muscle. He is also very reasonable in his conclusions and extrapolations of the data. Remember, the data are guidelines and not absolute mathematics everyone should stick to; you need to play around with what works best for you but what is provided from people like Brad Schoenfeld is an accurate starting point. There will be a degree of variance from person to person and also from natural to PED user. I have read a lot of his work and most of it is very well controlled and conducted research. I can tell you from the research that 1.6-2.2 grams of protein per kilo of bodyweight, split into 4 meals daily is the median optimal dose and split of protein for gaining muscle in natural, well trained individuals. Keep in mind once again, that this is the average. So thats about 160-220 grams of protein per day if you weigh 100 kg. Just keep in mind consuming more than you need is not detrimental, but consuming less than you need is. I know which choice I make everyday. I always shoot for a little more than I probably need.
“So what if we are taking a boat load of steroids and other performance enhancing drugs then? How much protein do we need now?”
Well, actually, anabolic steroids and other PED are very protein sparing. If anything, you could get away with less protein. Research shows that subjects (untrained) who were natural and did weights, gained less muscle than those who did not do weights and took steroids. That is how powerful these drugs are. But getting away with less is not what is optimal. We want to know what’s optimal. Common belief is that because you can gain many more times the amount muscle in one year on steroids compared to if you were natural, you should eat many more times the amount of protein in one day. Before I throw some rationale and math at this equation, lets all be clear that no official research has been done to determine the results of this hypothesis to follow.
A hypothetical to explain this best. For the sake of this explanation, lets pretend these two individuals in the following example are identical twins in every way, shape and form and the only thing they did different was that one twin took steroids and the other did not. A completely controlled experiment so to speak.
Lets say Twin A is a natural who weighs 100 kg and a Twin B is about to start his first ever steroid cycle who is also 100 kg and we are going to juice this dude to the eye balls! Lets say his first cycle is going to last the entire year and he will be monitored by the world’s best health physicians and steroid experts. If the natural needs around 220 grams of protein per day, lets bump it up to 240 grams of protein to be totally sure. Over the course of the year, the natural body-builder gained 5 kg of muscle. Wow! That is amazing for a natural at 100 kg. Well, the other dude on steroids gained a total of 20 kg of muscle in that same year. Wow! That is freaky, even for newbie steroid gains. That is a 15 kg difference. 2/3 of muscle tissue is fluid, leaving around 1/3 of actual tissue. For simplicity sake, consider the following math. 1/3 of 15 kg or 15,000 grams is 5000 grams of tissue. The dude on steroids gained 5000 grams more of actual tissue than the natural bodybuilder. What is 5000 grams divided by 365 days in one year? 13.69 grams. 13.69 grams extra protein per day than the natural would be required for the juiced up guy to gain an extra 15 kg of mass. That is 253.69 grams of protein per day. Hardly the amount many would assume would be required. So in conclusion, the protein requirements for a natural vs someone on performance drugs are likely going to be similar. Adding a little extra to be sure seems to be the best way to rule out any speculation because adding a little more protein is not detrimental to your gains or your health.
I hope this helps! David.
12-28-2022, 09:20 PM
#2
FitDay Member
It is widely known in the weightlifting community that anabolic steroid users should consume about 2 grammes of protein every pound (4.4 grammes per kilogramme). (A 200-pound bodybuilder who uses AS and GH and trains hard might consume 400 grammes of protein per day.)
09-18-2023, 08:28 AM
#4
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Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 171
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12-18-2023, 02:50 AM
#5
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Join Date: Nov 2023
Posts: 13
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