Why don't people like this answer?
 

I've had people at my job notice that I've lost weight. Part of me doesn't mind this, but part of me thinks it's none of their business and they shouldn't have been looking at my body anyway, but I suppose it's human nature to notice such things. Anyway, on to my main point. I've had a lot of people, mostly women, asking me how I did it.

I told them that all I did was count calories using fit day and tried to stay between 1200 and 1800 calories most days.

They don't understand this. Some people ask "how much does fit day cost?" I tell them it's free. They say "It's free? Do you buy your food from them?" I tell them no, I buy my own food, and that I just count the calories. They look at me like this is some kind of strange concept.

One woman told me "Oh, I couldn't do that" My thought was really? Are you so stupid you can't do addition? Of course I didn't say that. I just told her as far as I knew there was no other way.

She even came up to me later and asked again how I did it, and I gave her the same answer, and she gave the same response "Oh I couldn't count calories." All I could reply to her was that I didn't know any other way of losing weight except to control the calories because you have to burn more than you take in. She frowned and obviously didn't like that answer.

It's as if people WANT a complicated diet plan or "easy weight loss secret". Maybe from now on I should tell them to eat 3 avocados at every meal or something off the wall like that. I think I'd get more positive responses.

shaking head.....
 

:confused: I don't get that either. Tell me to pay 40 bucks a month to a corporate behemoth, read a long book and combine foods at the right time of day, or lie on shakes and I don't like that. Tell me to count up what I eat and keep it under a given number, I can dig that.

LIVE on shakes! Lord, if you just had to lie on them, I'd be skinny as a a rail! lol

It comes down to that people(as a group tendency) are lazy. Counting calories involves looking up foods, thinking about what you eat and exerting willpower to eat those foods.

Much easier to have someone else do the work and hand you a "weight loss system".

That's what I don't get about their responses. My answer is putting it in the simplest possible terms without elaborate plans or monthly fees. I see this is being much more appealing. Even if fitday weren't around, I'd keep my log on a piece of paper. Of course figuring out values for things like produce would be more difficult without fit day.

Maybe, but "log what you eat and stay between 1200-1800 a day" sounds like the simplest weight loss system I can think of. In my mind it would take more effort to follow some 'points plan' or to count carbs instead of calories, or use a weird card system, or eat this at this time of day, etc.

Maybe what their real problem is, involves the fact that the fit day plan involves eating less, and when they do eat, eating less caloricly dense and sometimes less appealing food, and they're just not willing to do that.

If someone asked me if I'd rather have a bowl of oatmeal or 5 slices of pepperoni pizza, I'd prefer the pizza, but I choose the oatmeal (most of the time). You can't always have the pizza and expect to make any progress.

I have several firends who want to lose weight and none of them follow my advise to join fitday. One will journal but lapses and gains back, another is maintaining well. However the others will not try this simple method.

I wonder if part of it is not wanting to take responsibility for losing - which also would mean accepting responsibility for what they weight now. Mary

THIS and...

because too many have become sheeple

Ruby,

I've had numerous people ask me "how I've done it", and my answers are the same as yours. I count my calories, I log EVERYTHING I eat, I work out, I keep my caloric intake between a set number daily. They look at me as if I had 3 heads and were from outer space. I've had quite a number of people tell me that that just sounds like "too much work" or that they're "not good with numbers like you are. I'd never be able to manage counting calories." I've even explained that I personally don't do the addition (but seriously, is it really that hard?), but that FitDay does it for me. They still say that it's too much work. We're in the age of smartphones, laptops and free WiFi hubs.....how hard is it to pull up a search engine, or a webiste??

I agree with HC. People, as a whole, are lazy. If it requires the most minimal amount of thought or effort, they're out. And you're right on the money when you say that their real problem is they don't want to eat less. I'm a food LOVER, so when I first decided that "this is it", I thought, OMG I'M GOING TO STARVE! And it's quite the contrary....I eat MORE and I'm less hungry throughout the day. I'm just eating fresher, less processed, and less calorie dense foods.

As far as other "weight loss systems" go, if you can afford it and want someone else to tell you what you can and can't eat, then I say go for it. As far as me, I like to control what goes into my body. But that's just me. I like to micro manage. I like crunching numbers. I like over analyzing every detail of my life. The only system I don't really have a problem with is Weight Watchers (other than the fact that you have to pay for it). Because all WW is, is calorie counting dumbed down. They assign "points" to specific products or foods based on the number of calories in that food. It's easier for people to add 2 + 2 than it is to figure out the exact calorie count in that banana and that bowl of oatmeal, and then add THAT together (although, even THAT'S not too complicated). Again, it's HC's answer of people are lazy.

Bottom line is this....if people who ask are serious about losing weight, they'll look into the advice you've given them. If not, then they won't. And some people are just curious.

I was gonna say maybe you should make up some complicated crazy diet/exercise plan and tell them you did that. It seems like they might just be looking for reasons why they "can't do that" anyway.

I won't lie. I do find logging tedious or constricting sometimes. But it does work.

And I agree with Tori. WW is just calorie restriction in the costume of a points system. As far as plans go, it's probably about the best of em (and I have been on so many of em - cabbage diet anyone? Atkins anyone? South Beach anyone? Dukan anyone?) Maybe you could tell them you did WW. Most people accept WW as a reasonable plan. After all, the Dutchess of York and Jennifer Hudson lost on it so it HAS to be good. And when they say Oh WW, OK, tell them you just did WW by another name: Fitday.

See, not to me. I treat it more like a game. I call it "Did I Log That?"oooohhhh I like!! I may have to start telling people this!!

Tori, I love your playful spirit!!!

BTW I think your tag line should be mini goal March 3rd, was it? Success!!! And even if it fluctuates you DID it. And you will succeed in your longterm goals too, girl, especially since you LIKE logging. There is a lot you can teach me, my dear!!!

WW is really just fitday with a rented space, a leader, and a group of fellow dieters. For me, the WW scale is the only scale I trust. Besides eating fewer calories than you burn, the greatest message I get from WW is one that is rarely articulated: 'If you keep on doing what you have been doing, you'll get what you have always got!' You have to change the number of calories going in and how you burn those calories. In basic ways - no loopholes, no gimmicks - and be able to live the rest of your life with those changes. You hope the rest of your life is going to be a long time, so those changes have to be very workable, very flexible, and taste good enough, too!

I think Mary hit on one of the things people have the most trouble with: taking responsibility for themselves. "it isn't my fault it's the high fructose corn syrup", "it's not my fault, all we have is fast food around the place I work", "it's not my fault, diet food is too expensive". I'm sure you all have heard the excuses. (See Mike's Hey Fattie... thread)

I once got snippy enough with an "oh I couldn't possibly do that!" person that I retorted, "then you will stay fat forever" (not my kindest moment :o)

I don't like weight watchers because it disguises the fact that people need to count calories. I think that's why so many people will go on weight watchers and lose weight then get off of it and gain weight back. They need to realize it's about calories.

Points are an artificial system. I also read on another thread on this site that Weight Watchers is now allowing many fruits and vegetables, including bananas, to have zero points. If you eat 5 bananas, that's at least 500 calories, the same goes for apples. If you gorge on bananas and apples all day thinking they're zero points, you will be even more fat and wonder why and probably fall into a self-esteem pit. They're not calorie free and Weight Watchers has no right to make them seem that way.

I also think it's idiotic to charge someone for something they could be doing themselves if they learned how to keep track of calories (even if it's on paper).

My co-worker has bought the new WW points tracker and I am going to have her get me one to help me track on the go for an approximate. She has mentioned that fruits and veggies are free and I can see lots of room for abuse there. I think they are trying to move to a healthier diet as some of the low calorie but no nutrition things that used to be low in points are now higher. For me -- anything will work if I do it and keep doing it. But most things end up reducing your calorie intake. I'm still looking for the way to make it a lifestyle change than will last. Mary

I think it's ridiculous to approximate calories when fit day gives you the chance to log things in by ounces or grams so you know calories more precisely. I weighed the edible part of a large orange earlier and it came to 114 calories, more than the entry for "large orange" in the database which is an approximation. Even calories from fruits and vegetables can make you fat if you gorge on them. One large orange on the fit day database is 86.5 calories. That much of a differences makes weighing things on a food scale a necessity if you're actually serious about calorie counting.

I'm looking for a way to journal during the times I'm not near my computer. The WW toy just gives you a running total so I've decided it would not help me. I don't think fitday has an app for the blackberry yet. It's to hard to see the full program on the tiny screen. Mary

If you can plan ahead (I know this is not always possible) you can log things in ahead of time. I do this for when I take my lunch to work, it's already logged in so I don't have to go without logging it even though I don't have non-business related internet access at work.

Planning ahead does help. And so does logging. I'll be honest and say that I get overwhelmed sometimes and don't want to log. I just want to eat "naturally." But I am an emotional eater with health problems so I do need to watch what I eat. I am very food sensitive, have high bp and borderline cholesterol and when I lose a bit, my numbers get better. When I eat better, it helps with my fibromyalgia. Trouble is, when I am in a fibro flare, I just find it hard to cook, log, etc. And when I try to exercise in a flare, I wind up bedridden for a couple of days.

I lost some weight recently (from meds) and then gained it all back (couldn't tolerate the meds.) But I also ate more. I take full responsibilty for this. The ironic thing is that when I got a bit heavier, people kept telling me how skinny I looked and asking me how I did it, telling me not to lose any more. Maybe it was the clothing I was wearing IDK, maybe illness and other factors made me look a bit drawn. IDK. Anyway after telling them stuff they didn't want to hear like I try tracking my food and don't eat sugar, try to watch carbs, etc, I finally told them I was on the "stress diet" - that I had lost weight due to stress. That shut them up, believe me. Nobody wants to be on that diet!!!

If telling people about Fitday doesn't work, maybe don't tell them. I'm not saying lie, I'm just suggesting that maybe we don't have to explain ourselves. When people are ready to hear the truth, they will.

I still go to WW and do fitday, also. One thing I have to point out is that calories are not the main topic in WW (behavioral techniques, finding ways to avoid overeating those calories is). However, WW is upfront about points being calories, however weighted to encourage fresh unprocessed foods with more emphasis on filling low-density foods. This doesn't mean you can't eat high-density caloric foods, just that you know they are!

I went to WW in the very early days (my early days, at least) when you checked off items from food groups, even a certain number of glasses of water! Even then, the message was that calories underly the WW philosophy. The 'eat less and move more' message is more contemporary to WW - for a long time, the message seemed to be that 'Well, just eat less and that's enough of an effort that you will see good results...' In, I'd say the last 10 years, exercise has been slowly introduced. It's enough of the WW platform now that you can 'earn' some more points to spend at meals just because your exercise level is high enough to warrant that.

What's really shocking, to most people, is what WW will tell you about how many calories, really, you must expend to be able to 'eat extra calories/points. At one meeting, our WW group leader explained how much you could eat after walking the length of a football field. I don't think it was worth a medium-sized apple! Calories are certainly mentioned and stressed. But what stumps most people is their own behavioral patterns when presented with some delicious calorie-rich temptation. And especially some blindness about portion sizes that to me is the most difficult obstacle to 'seeing calories on the plate.'

Well said Kathy. I think using any tools at our disposal is good. Sometimes a change or a gadget will remotivate me.

People do feel they have a right to comment on weight loss -- and hair cuts. How you want to respond is up to you. I'm off to a meeting at a restraunt Because I will be rushed for curling afterwards I won't be eating or drinking other than coffee. I'm sure that will lead to comments. Mary

Kathy,

Very well put. I wasn't saying that WW was only about calories. I was just pointing out that their "points" are based on calories. I have no problems with WW (other than the price). My SIL lost 90 lbs using WW after the birth of their last child. But, like a lot of people, she stopped doing what was working (keeping track of her points and going to meetings) and subsequently gained it all back plus more. She liked the fact that the guess work of what was in a certain dish was done for her. I on the other hand prefer to calculate it myself, and see where I can make substitutions to lower the caloric intake for something. But I'm a big math nerd, and LOVE doing those kinds of things. I feel that as long as something works for you, don't change it. FD is working for me, so I'll stick with it.



On a side note, one of my coworkers was talking about needing to lose weight (like she does weekly, but God bless it, I love her) and she made the comment "Tori, I just don't see how you do it! I gotta be able to EAT!" When I explained, for the 1000th time that I DO eat. She said "well, I gotta be able to eat GOOD food." I had to remind her, that I still eat "good food", just prepared in healthier ways. She gave me this funny look, and said "well, the way you do it is just too hard for someone stupid like me." I just smiled and said "you know what, maybe it is a little bit complicated for some people, but it's working out just fine for me." And I ended the conversation. There are some people who just DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH. There's no use arguing with them.

I was afraid to try to diet for a long time because when I would get hungry I would start shaking from low blood sugar, and my stomach would feel like it would fill with acid and cause a sour stomach and acid reflux.

The only way to prevent this was to eat enough before I went to work on food that was fatty enough/protein packed enough to stick in my stomach until I could eat again.

Sometimes stuffing myself before I went to work still wasn't enough and I'd end up trembling from low blood sugar or having acid come up into my mouth or just a very bad stomach ache on top of a growling stomach a few hours later when my stomach was empty if I had to wait too long before I could eat.

I did best if I ate every couple of hours and if the meal was heavy enough to stick that long.

That's one reason that I gained so much weight, I had to constantly have something on my stomach or I would start shaking and feel sick.

I was really afraid to try to diet because of how painful and unpleasant being hungry was, more than it was for other people. I thought I was stuck being heavy and I didn't know what to do about it.

My doctor's office told me a weight that was 30 pounds higher than what I'd estimated and I felt caught between being afraid of passing out from the low blood sugar and being afraid that one day or night my heart was just going to explode. I had an image in my head of myself that was about possibly having a stroke with half my body paralyzed and half my face frozen and it really scared me badly, and that movitated me to try to prevent that if I could. I was also afraid of a sudden, fatal heart attack.

I was under tremendous stress being caught between a rock and a hard place like that. I was so afraid of being hungry because I knew how it made me feel.

I was able to start losing weight by eating very large portions of low calorie foods with lots of fiber in them which helped them to "stick" around in my stomach long enough to where I didn't have a hypoglycemic shaking fit. After I lost more weight I didn't have the same health issues. I'm able to actually feel mild natural hunger now without worrying about passing out from low blood sugar or getting a shaking fit or having an extremely sour stomach.

I think that was my biggest hurdle that I had to get over, that was keeping me from getting where I am now. So maybe other people have issues like that too (that are probably both made worse by their excess weight, and perpetuate or worsen the problem) but they don't want to talk about them.

People don't understand about calories I guess, it strange to anyone who has a brain why they would respond in that manner. :confused:I don't see what hard about counting your calories, if anything this is a simple way to lose weight and you can control how fast you lose weight as well. I guess lipo suction is easier but then you have the risk of dying. So the cons out weight the pros in my mind on this matter. Sorry that they were so negative about what you are doing, it's great that your losing weight, keep it up

There's another thing about WW worth mentioning. And don't get me wrong, I think WW is a great tool for folks who don't want to be bothered with details. It IS easier to track calories than the way we do it IMO, but I prefer this way because I actually learn about nutrition.

Now the other thing about WW is that you don't get the micronutrients calculated for you. So if you've got a deficiency in magnesium, which is an easy thing to be deficient in, you'll never know about it. And just taking a multivitamin won't do the trick as they don't supply the RDA of Mg. So how important is this? Well, without a good amount of Mg in the diet one will always feel tired at the least, and at the worst, a deficiency has been linked to strokes and heart attacks. So there's yet another reason how a packaged "diet plan" can be lacking.

Somebody recently told me that WW has taken calories out of the equation altogether and points are based on protein and other nutrients. I can't believe it - they'd have to change their name to Weight Gain Watchers.

I almost joined a couple of years ago, but just got annoyed at all their advertising. I figured they didn't have a patent on weight loss and I did not want to pay for their Jennifer Hudson ads and so forth.

WW has never lost its calorie basis. When you eat x number of points, it always ends up being y number of calories, more or less. The 'more or less' part stays within limits that still allow you to lose weight. They don't perform any kind of magic on calories and they are the first to tell you that. What's the focus is behavior. That's what meetings are about. There's a certain amount of 'how can I do this' discussion. There's a lot of motivational talk about being able to do something toward a goal without self-sabotage.

If you eat enough protein and fiber, you won't be hungry, and the low-caloric-density foods give you lots of variety of taste. That's how points tend to get 'weighted' but you can never eat a lot of either protein or fiber and have calories disappear from the equation. I found a very high fiber cracker (GG crackers, at Whole Foods) that is pretty much rye pressed into a sheet form... when I looked up the points, it was 0 points. No surprise there. It was relatively low in calories but seemed to be almost all fiber! How likely am I to overeat that to the point that it takes me beyond my calorie limit? Not likely - my body would be in some kind of appetite-revolt before I could do that.

What's in the protein? Fat (as in marbled meats) That's not going to be a bargain for points. If it's a lean meat (or fish, or cheese), that allows you more points to spend elsewhere in your daily menus. Point-wise, it is going to look better. But, no surprise - that lean meat is fewer calories 'for your buck' so to speak. It does come down to math, ultimately. Fat is not taboo - but it counts in nature and in points - it's more than twice the calories as the same amount of protein or carbs. Eat it if you want, count it, and see if you can live with just that dominating your calorie allowance. That's the accountability part of dieting, with emphasis on acCOUNTability.

This is all stuff you learn using fitday, anyway. WW just offers support for that.

I don't know for sure, but it may be that WW also encourages a basic one-a-day type supplement these days. Not more than 100% of the RDA for various vitamins and minerals - I vaguely remember that being mentioned in a meeting. (There's an online WW that I can go to for the answer,though - WW is online for people who want to do the plan but can't go to meetings... although I would miss the 'weigh in' if I did that.)
They don't go beyond recommending what is currently recommended for daily RDA (vitamin D recommendations are changing, and that has been discussed in meeting, because the change to the recommendation is happening in the medical world). Not only does it take emphasis away from the goal of the meeting (support) to devote time to looking at current vitamin/mineral research, but it's something they would say is probably a good discussion to have with a doctor, not them.

My doctor already tests for vitamin D. We already had that discussion!

I've been at a meeting where a member wanted to just do one older variation of the WW plan and the answer was 'fine.' Sticking to the plan, which is always counting, counting, counting.... is what makes it work. Hence the support group. If you don't stick to it, it won't work. That's true of any diet that manages calories, right?

The money doesn't bother me. If I couldn't do their meetings, I'd go to any of the WW-like programs (TOPS, OA, etc.) One thing I've come to appreciate is their WW cookbooks, which make it a lot easier to cook something good and know the points/calories. I have never paid the full price for a WW cookbook - Amazon offers books at discount prices. The very old WW cookbooks can be found at library book sales.

:D:D:D

Yes that's exactly what happened to me!! They want to hear about a plan or that I had surgery (I think some probably think I did). They don't want to hear that I go to the gym and watch what I eat.

People also think I must be starving and depriving myself. Nope to both! Every three to four hours I put food in my mouth and I don't eat anything I don't like!

Here's my take . . .
 

I agree with Hope. But really, am I lazy for not liking to deal with numbers? I'm so not a number person. I get so tired of tracking everything. To be blunt: I despise the tedious aspect of counting calories. (The first reason I joined FitDay.) I like Tori's idea of approaching logging in as a game. That idea helps. If I had to track calories by writing everything down - I would probably last only a day or two.

How it works for me at this at this point in my life:
#1. As I log in, I watch numbers/percentages play out. I learn for instance, about how many Calories for one meal to aim for. So I learn what combination of portions/servings of food works.

#2. I learn about food composition. Fats is a big thing for me to watch. So I continue to learn what foods are healthier and how to end up with a better looking pie chart.

#3. I approach eating with servings of food groups (Think the Food Pyramid). I DO NOT like to count calories. That's why I like FitDay, because it counts it for me. So as I work toward cleaner consumption by thinking thru Food Servings in the various Food Groups, the FitDay charts guide me. Does that make sense?

Other than Laziness?:When people respond that they can't do it, I wonder if they feel overwhelmed by tedious numbers. It may be laziness, but I think that often there is more to it than that. IF they can see how logging with FitDay can be adapted to their talents/abilities and to their own thought processing, then they need not feel so overwhelmed.

My Opinion: People first need to admit where they are, they need encouragement & hope, and they need reinforcements. They need to be shown how it is feasible for them with their uniqueness. (I guess you could just stick my name in this paragraph, because that's how it is for me.) .

So please don't blame "not wanting to count calories syndrome" as laziness only. When people ask, "How did/do you do it?", what do you think the real question is? Is it that they need to see hope? And the response: "I can't do that." Again, they need to see that it is possible for them to become healthier, but they need to start where they are and not where you/we are.

In the end, each person needs to take responsibility for themselves and live with consequences of decisions (good or bad).

I have hypoglycemia. I feel severe pain in my stomach when I don't eat. If I wait too long to eat, I wind up eating three times as much to "catch up" it seems. I would be curious to hear the kind of foods you eat that you find helpful.

Luv, I am not a numbers person either. But as Vito said, it is helpful to look at the micronutrients and see what you are getting and what you are lacking. I also think Luv's questions, what are people really asking? What are they really saying? are good ones. Maybe people are saying I wish I could do it too but I don't know how or I am afraid I can't.

Luv, I would never say that someone is lazy when they are doing what needs to be done. YOU are doing those things. I'm talking solely about the people who ask and want to know, yet they don't want to take the steps to see results. The girl at work who is constantly asking me 'how I'm doing it', I've explained numerous times that all I'm doing is counting calories, making healthier choices, and working out. She's made her "I'm too stupid to do that" comment no less than 15 times in the past 4 months. I've explained to her 13 out of those 15 times that, while I CAN add it all together myself, I use FD to do it for me because it's easier. I mean seriously, she could log her food and activities while she's watching TV every night, she just chooses not to. It's THOSE type of people who irritatae me. If you don't want to know what I'm really doing, then don't ask.

On the other hand, I had one of my vendors ask me Monday afternoon, and he took down the information that I gave him. HE was open to at least "trying".

Hope ~ Oh dear!:p I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I didn't take it that you were calling people lazy.

I see Vito's point about watching micro/macro nutrients. I think that's one of the uniqueness of having a tool like FitDay. WW or other programs don't do this very well if at all.
----------------------

Tori, I thought this thread in general was taking on the tone of - Because you don't count calories, you therefore must not be taking charge of your life and are lazy. Oh the blessing of listening to tone on the internet! I think of myself tracking calories as I train myself to have certain amount of servings in each food category.

I get it that there's an irritating quality when someone asks repeatedly for help, but doesn't bite. Looks like I may have missed the bigger picture of what you said & keyed in on the minute detail.

Sounds like that co-worker of yours approaches life with negative thoughts and thus her approach with weight loss. I agree: This would be a case where when it comes down to it, you gave specific possible tools to use, made it feasible - either she reaches out & accepts it . . .or not. So now it's up to her to take the next step.

I was up early this morning. I hope this post makes sense.:rolleyes:

People want weight loss to be complicated
 

If it was easy what excuse would be left? Since I use fitday and another site called shrinkyourself(which deals with the emotional aspects of weight and emotional eating) I offer the web info. Most people don't want to hear that counting calories and exercising, plus healthier food choices will lead to weight loss. It is so easy and yet too hard. I know, I had been over 300 lbs for 40 years, "trying" everything but not "doing" what needed to be done, daily.

Thanks :) You have a good point that liposuction is dangerous. Also I don't think it can be used to make a fat person thin. I thought only small amounts could be taken in one go.

Honestly? Most people wont' like this answer but back when I was having issues with that problem the best foods that kept me from getting hungry again quickly were high fat foods like cheese, fried eggs, fatty meat, etc. You know, they don't call those foods "stick to your ribs" for nothing. They delay hunger.

Now that I'm trying to limit that kind of thing I go for high protein and high fiber foods like tuna sandwiches on whole grain bread. My eggs are boiled now too. A tuna sandwich (I don't use mayo, just the fish) with a couple of boiled eggs keeps me going for a while now. Sometimes fat still helps me not to feel as hungry but I get it in reasonable portions like 90 calorie Barney Butter snack packs.

I don't really have the problem that I used to have. Sometimes I can feel a little bit off after very heavy exercise but for the most part I can be hungry without trembling or an acid stomach now.

I know what you mean about after having one of those incidents needing to gorge to feel normal.

If I recall correctly, you and I have discussed Magnesium before. It's a KEY nutrient for energy etc. And it's not present in "many" multivitamins:

this according to LINUS PAULING INSTITUTE RESEARCH REPORT.

What to Look for in a Multivitamin Supplement

So in effect, WW is ASSUMING that people are getting enough Magnesium in their diets IF indeed they at least recommend a multi to their clients. But does anyone know for SURE how much they are getting? No. Considering that low Magnesium is LINKED TO HEART ATTACKS, isn't it wise to know for sure? Yes!

In my opinion, this is a major flaw in WW.


Sorry about hijacking the thread, Rubystars, but this was extremely important information to get out.

If it's something complicated, people have an excuse not to do it.

If it's easy and you choose not to, there's no excuse and you have to take a long, hard look at yourself and ask why you aren't doing it.

It's hard to take that long, hard look sometimes.