Plateau?
 

Interesting, I start exercising and my weight loss slows? I don't really buy into the whole "you're increasing muscle weight" thing, but I suppose it's possible. I'm only doing a 15 minute "brisk" walk daily (w/three up and three down sets of stairs), but that ought to burn around 130 cals according to FitDay (at my weight of 335).

I've not been perfect in my eating (and I often drink beer on Saturdays) but the weekly average shows a massive calorie deficeit as it always has.

Lost 1.5 lbs a week for the last two weeks and the silly scale actually showed an increast this morning, though I WAS off my weigh-in schedule.

Just venting a bit--I know platueaus will happen and I know about the various tactics we can use to help break them.

Thanks for listening!

Michael

PS I HAVE now gotten into my size 48 Levis and retired the 50s that I've worn for a while now. I should post a pic--I was wearing 60s when I started this back in May. :D

Michael I'm curious how many calories you are eating?

I have been through a couple of periods of slowed weight loss. Everytime the solution was to reduce the calories.

Since July I started at 2400 then 2300 then 2200 to 2000 and now I'm at 1800.

I have lost 27 pounds over that time and my average loss is between 1.5-2 lbs per week. Now that may not sound like a lot but it was roughly 10% of my body fat and well over 10% of my bodyweight.

Sorry to say but I don't believe you are building any muscle walking, preserving it maybe but building no. I believe you would benefit a lot if you started lifting weights.

If you make a link to your fitday log in this thread or in your signature I would be happy to help you out.

Actually just last week I had been stuck at 200 for nearly 2 weeks, I was getting pretty frustrated, and then this week when I reduced my calories my weight jumped down to 197 lbs and my average loss was right on schedule. Its easy to get wrapped up in the moment.

Hey, thanks!

Yes, I realize very light cardio is likely not producing any muscle and that I should do some lifting. I have lower back and shoulder issues that I try not to wake up so I'll approach that carefully.

I do have a very nice bench (with inclide/decline, leg lift and lat pulldown) and a couple hundred pounds of cast iron plates w/a straight and curl bar and a set of dumbells up to 25 lbs.

Here's my food log: http://fitday.com/fitness/PublicJour...Owner=mecompco

I try to get a good mix of protein, carbs and fat. I try to limit sat fat and simple carbs. I only drink water and coffee (and beer of Saturdays). I have one "treat" item a day--usually an icecream sandwich or the like. I eat fruit and veggies every day. I avoid most "diet" products and artificial sweetners (my salad dressing and yogurt are exceptions). Oh, and I log EVERYTHING--the good as well as the bad.

My calorie goal is 1500. If I'm between 1500 and 1600 I'm happy. On Saturdays I may hit 2000, perhaps even 3000 on the odd occasion we go out to eat (still trying to make reasonably intelligent choices). As you will see, I eat a fairly high protein breakfast at 6:00 am, have a 100 cal snack (usually a piece of fruit) at 9:00, a 300 cal lunch at Noon followed by my walk and usually supper around 6:00 pm for the rest of my cals.

Again, thanks for taking time to read all this!

Michael

Michael,

Good job on your weight loss so far! Going from 60s to 48s is no small feat.

I'm a big believer in doing small things that add up to a big result. One thing I noticed was you have a cheat every day right? You might try spacing those out slowly, i.e., every other day or so. That in itself will cut your cheat calories in half over the course of the week. Considering each ice cream sandwich is around 150-200 kcal you'd be saving between 500-800 extra calories a week just eating one every other day.

It's probably a good place to start on reducing your calories further.

Wrt lifting, if you've got shoulder issues I'd hold off on pressing movements for a while and concentrating on pulling (lat pulldowns, rowing, upright rows) and strengthening the upper back and middle shoulders. This will give your shoulder girdle more support from the opposing muscles when you eventually get to the pressing. 2-3 weeks no pressing should be long enough.

Good luck with your future progress :)

Nik, that might be a good call on my daily desert, though I don't use the term "cheat" because there is no "cheating" in my new lifestyle as I am not on a diet. I am simply reducing and monitoring my calorie intake and trying to eat "normal" foods within certain guidelines.

I'm really not doing anything different than I've done to average a 3lb a week loss--I know the loss slows as one gets lighter, but I'm still well over 300 so its got to take some significant energy to keep the lights and furnace on. :D

I have decided to forgo the drinking of any beer this week--that will save 1K cals or more right there. Perhaps it will make a difference.

Thanks for the encouragement and we'll see how things look at next week's weigh-in.

Michael

Sat fat is not bad fat, all of your cells need it as their outer layer is made up of sat fat. Over intake of sat fat is where bad news comes in as sat fat also stays in solid form in your body. But it looks like you have a good balance of your fat intake anyway.

Another benefit of laying off the beer will be removing stress from your liver which breaks down fat for energy!

-Andrew

Andrew, thanks for the input. Yes, I know I should give up the beer entirely. It's pretty much all carbs and not good for the liver (and I've abused my liver pretty hard in the past) not to mention the calories. Perhaps I'll cut back to one day a month and see how that goes.

Regards,
Michael

Just because saturated fat is solid at room temperature outside the body doesn't mean that it's the case inside the body. Once the body absorbs it and puts it into transport molecules it doesn't just spontaneously solidify. Although too much of anything is bound to be bad, this sort of simplification doesn't really paint the right picture.

Just a friendly correction :)

Sat. fat is solid at biological temp. Your cells use sat fat as a barrier to keep what it does and doesn't want in/out of the cell. The outer layer of all animal cells have a hydrophobic end which are made up of sat fat, this layer also insulates your cells. If sat fat was liquid at body temp then it would serve as a horrible insulator and wouldn't be able to regulate what enters and exits the cell. Your body does break down sat fat into fatty acids which are then transported through your body where some is used for energy and some is rebuilt back to sat fat to be used by your cells.

You can also think of it like this... The fat that is stored in your body is also made up of saturated fat. So your gut doesn't slosh around like you are carrying extra liquid... it's solidified fat.

I suggest you change up your exercise. If you have been doing the same thing since May then your body will have adapted and it will consume less energy for the same routine. Weight lifting, as mentioned could be a great benefit (be careful with the shoulder). I would also recommend that you try to keep your protein up at 30% of your calories. Perhaps replacing the daily ice cream with a protein shake.

The beer is really sabotaging your efforts. I suggest you moderate your consumption. Instead of 6 or 8 have 2 or 3. Its not just the calories, it is also about the timing of the calories. When your consumption is limited to a short amount of time your body has no chance to burn off the calories and so they get stored. You do good all week and then replace half your deficit in one day. You would be better off drinking 1 beer daily then 7 in one day. Not trying to preach, just pointing out where you can improve to get past your plateau.

Congratulations on your success so far!

Siege,

It's true that cell membranes are largely sat fat, but they actually function more like liquid films than solids. There's transporter proteins embedded in the cell membranes that let in ions and other molecules that aren't fat soluble, but they also "float" around freely in the membrane and aren't fixed in place with respect to each other. It's kind of like an oil film on the surface of water that separates the water from the air - it's a barrier that's still a liquid.

The fat that is stored in your gut isn't just blocks of solidified sat fat. It's living tissue made up of collections of fat cells which store triglycerides in compartments within them. The triglycerides contain all kinds of fatty acids - sat, mono, poly, trans - depending on your body's fatty acid balance. The cells themselves are active in secreting factors and hormones. Since it's a tissue, like muscle, it's fairly solid and doesn't move around much.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Michael! I'm a sucker for biochemistry :o

Great information but I think you two should butt heads elsewhere. Lets try and help this guy who's asking for help.

I completely agree with Ron about the beer. Alcohol is a fat loss and muscle builders worst enemy.

First alcohol must be burned off before all food calories. So when you are going out to eat on Saturday night having your 3000 calories and downing a sixer this is truely the cause of your slowed progress. All the food calories you just ate are stored so that all the alcohol can be processed out of your system.

Second Alcohol is calorie dense and contains no nutritional value. 7 cals/gram but no actual food value or vitamin/mineral content.

Alcohol lowers protein synthesis.

Alcohol lowers testosterone while increasing estrogen. (YIKES!)

There are many other effects not to mention the loss of motivation the day following a binge.

I am not going to be the one to tell you to stop drinking all together, but I think you should keep it to 2-3 beers once a week at the most.

Ok now for your food. I believe you may be eating too little getting 1500 calories a day. Especially when you are throwing in one day a week of double that amount.

I believe you would benefit from slowly increasing your calorie intake back to 2000. Start doing some resistance training. It doesn't have to be weight lifting simple bodyweight exercises are great.

If you cut down on items like cheese, bacon and hot dogs you could replace those calories with lean choices and be eating a lot more food.

When you say you don't have any cheat foods thats fine. But at a certain point those comfort/non healthy foods aren't going to help you lose weight, even if you are reducing your calories. You could be replacing those with fruits/vegetables and that alone would help you a lot. Start trying some more lean meats. Try replacing your breads with brown rice carbs and black beans. You have come a long way with your current approach. But I think now its time to up the anti.

I'm not gonna say I'm the perfect example, because I'm certainly not. But I think you could get a lot of meal ideas from my logs. My archives go back daily to July 6th and I have divided up each entry by meal. If you want some ideas just take a look at my archives. I think you are doing well, and just some minor improvements will have you right back on track.

Edit: I forgot to mention your nutrient macro could use some improvement. I think your fat needs to be switched with your protein, instead of getting 30% fat and 15-20% protein it should be the other way around. A good figure to aim for is 1.5g/kg of your "IDEAL/GOAL" bodyweight.

P.S. Ignore the Protein Powder Gatorade meals, thats my post workout stuff. Unless you start pumpin the iron!

Jason, thanks for sharing your food log--I've got some new ideas for the upcoming weeks.

I will be working on reducing fat and increasing protien.

I hear ya' on the beer--will work on keeping that to once a month at the most. I'll be honest, I like a good beer buzz and at 335 it takes a good amount to achieve--I know it's bad, but it's the truth. That being said, I can postpone gratification and will do so.

With all due respect, I don't entirely buy into the whole starvation mode thing. The last time I got serious about losing weight I stayed religiously under 1000 cals a day for 9 months (and under 10 grams of fat total per day). This was after a 30 day water fast :eek:. Took off around 200 lbs in that time period (walked at least 2 miles a day, as well as lifting). Got down to 184lbs.

BUT, of course, the weight went back on. That's why I picked 1500 this time--fairly decent weight loss, but not so extreme. I have no doubt that I can do it, then the real test will start as I have never in my 46 years actually maintained a weight--I've always been either losing or gaining (usually gaining).

Thanks again for your insightful posts!

Regards,
Michael

Michael I just think that with a lesser restriction, you would learn how to maintain this long term with the idea of it becoming a lifestyle. I know you want it to come off fast, but slower is healthier and more permanent. Like you said you don't want the weight to come back. Maybe 2200 is high, if you can maintain the 1500 and be comfortable and still lose then just stick with what works. I like to eat as much as possible and still lose just because its more comfortable and I can still build a meager amount of muscle.

BTW I think Turbulence Training has a few bodyweight exercise manuals on the web for free or on youtube, try those they are awesome.

Jason, thanks, I'll check out the Turbulence Training--sounds interesting.

I appreciate all your knowledge, and perhaps you're right about more calories. I am, though, pretty comfortable at 1500-1600, spread out over the day.

Just to play devil's advocate (and I'll freely admit I'm somewhat ignorant on the topic), how can an extra 200-500 cals a day be good while the occasional one day at week with an extra 1500 cals be bad? I'm no math genius, but it "just don't add up".

I know this whole thing is a big guesstimate and the basal metabolism/lifestyle varies for everyone but it has up until the last few weeks been pretty right on--approx. 4000 cals burned a day to keep breathing, minus 1400 to 1500 a day intake comes out to around 3lbs or so a week loss.

Thanks again--I always learn something new from your posts.

Michael

I think at 4000 calories you are over estimating it, because if you were burning 4000 calories you would be able to maintain a 1500 deficit eating 2500 calories and lose 2-3 lbs per week. But you were only eating 1500, and had been losing 2-3 as you say. So I think your calories burned is probably closer to 2500-3000.

The formulas don't take into account fat/lean mass so they are not always accurate.

Its not that 1 day of 1500 extra vs spreading it out over the week is better than the other, but when you put the extra calories and alcohol intake side by side they are a bad combo. Also when you spread it out you are still in a deficit everyday, whereas on the 3000+ calories days you are going into a calorie surplus possibly storing fat, so its counter productive.

Try to reserve the alcohol for special occasions and try not to reward yourself with food or alcohol.

And I also just think you could maintain your losses with a little less of a calorie deficit, if you added in a little more exercise.

It is not just math, biology plays a big role. Your body needs energy and it needs to store that energy so it is available at any time. To do this your body converts nutrients into glycogen that is stored in your muscles. (Think of it as your gas tank.) As you go about your day your body uses some of the glycogen. When you eat those calories go first to replenish or top off your tank. Any excess gets stored in long term storage as fat. If you are at a caloric deficit then your body has to go to long term storage to convert fat into glycogen to top off your tank.

When you eat a 1500 calorie surplus in one day your glycogen reserves get refilled and then all the rest gets stored as fat. Think of it like this, you go to the gas station and refill your gas tank. Now you drive 50 miles and stop and put 2 more gallons in your tank to refill. But if you try to put in 5 gallons the excess 3 gallons is going to spill over.

This is also why spreading your calories throughout the day is advocated rather than eating a large percentage of your calories in one sitting. Cheat days can be beneficial to resetting your metabolism and your attitude but should not be an excuse to unlimited binging. There are other threads about cheat days and zig-zagging your calories if you are interested.

I believe everyone needs to find a longterm plan that they can live with. I have taken the approach that this is a lifestyle change that I will maintain for the rest of my life. If you approach this as a short term diet to acheive a goal and you plan on returning to your previous eating habits then (as you have experienced in the past) you will bounce right back up the scale.

Good luck on your journey.

One thing I forgot to add, and this may sound blunt. But at 335 it has probably taken a lifetime of poor eating habits to get to that weight. I know you want fast results and we all crave that instant gratification. But I think you would benefit from focusing on building a foundation of new healthy habits. It will take more than a year to get to a healthy weight, so you need to be in it for the long haul. Just think after a year how many healthy habits you will make. With all the tools in place to live a healthy lifestyle, you won't let yourself go back to your old ways.

Michael I hope I didn't offend you and end our conversation early. Let me know how you are doing with your progress.

Jason, I'm pretty hard to offend :D

And I wholeheartedly agree--if one exceeds the 400 pound mark (not once, but twice) then there is a problem there somewhere. Although I avoid head shrinkers, I think it's pretty safe to say that I have (and have always had) an eating disorder. Like I said, I've never in my life, ever, actually maintained a weight--it's always been going up or going down.

It's really funny that 330 feels REALLY good after being well over 400 six short months ago and barely able to walk a couple hundred feet without gasping for breath.

Anyway, I am trying to implement your suggestion of increasing the protien to fat ratio and the scale moved 4 lbs down last week. I have also decided to take your advice to further limit alcohol intake--I will see how once a month works out.

Thanks again for your valuable insight!

Regards,
Michael

Awsome!

Update
 

Looks like the "plateau" is gone for a while. After implementing some changes, the body has decided to seriously dump some weight. Have lost right around 15 lbs in the last two weeks--simply amazing!

Still eating roughly the same number of calories, except for keeping the weekends better under control, and no alcohol (still plan to have some once a month).

Have also:

Upped weekday excercise to a full mile walk at lunch time.

Stopped coodking my breakfast w/olive oil (for some reason it never occurred to me that this was a source of calories until reading Jason's food log (thanks again, btw.)) now use no-stick spray.

Made a modest attempt at keeping my protein to fat ratios better (not always successfully, but I do try).

That's it. I'm amazed that after 6 months of this I can go into turbo mode like this. Thanks again to all who posted suggestions in this thread!

Regards,
Michael