I hate the BMI Index
 

I am curious to see how many other men out there have the same problem I do. I suffered a serious knee and shoulder issue three years ago and put on about 30 lbs. Both knees have been a problem (football and basketball) for the past 25 years so I have to watch the types of exercise I do. I am 5'10" and currently weigh 300 lbs. Now that means I am extremely obese but even the trainers at my gym agree there are extenuating circumstances. I wear size 13 shoes, can palm a basketball in either hand, have a 36" shirt sleeve length and and wear a size 8 hat. In other words, I am very very big boned (not kidding - they agree). I have a friend who is 6'6" who is the same height as me (from the waist up) when we are sitting down. Short legs and a long torso.

When I was 275 lbs, my body fat % was 31%. An ideal body fat was recommended to me as 15%. Using their formula, I would be 15% at 212 lbs. The BMI index recommends I weigh between 128 and 176 lbs. According to the numbers, if I lost ALL OF MY BODY FAT I WOULD STILL WEIGH 190 AND BE OVERWEIGHT.

If there is anyone out there with a similar height/weight issue I would appreciate hearing from as to how they approach their diet/exercise program.

Yeah, in the Marines, they went by a height/weigth chart. I was very fit and struggled to stay at the upper limit of the chart. I had to have a doctor verify my body fat percentage to stay off the 'fat-body platoon'.
Now, years later, I am obese (according to BMI Charts). I think the mirror is the most important ruler to labeling weither or not I am fat, chunky, obese, over-weight, and all other labels in between.
When I lose enough weight to make me happy (and not the charts), then I'll label myself 'fit'. Of course, there can be other factors, like high blood pressure, diabetes, ect... that I don't have a problem with, but if I did, it would modify my definition of fit.

BMI is a fairly useless, outdated measurement. It's a wonder the medical community at large still uses it. I go by bf% measurements, lipid panel, my own feelings of mental focus and physical bloat, body weight, and weight lifted (size/strength ratios).

I have lost a lot of strengh since beginning my diet. I weight 265lbs and can bench press 315lbs only 2 reps. Just a little over a month ago, at 278, I could bench press 315lbs 5 reps, 5 sets, ate like a pig. So, as you can see, I am feeling pretty bad about my workouts. On the other hand, I went from walk/running 3 miles in 37 minutes to running 3 miles in under 30 min.
Can you explain a little about the siz/strength ratios and what I can expect as I continue to lose (goal is 250lbs body weight)?

I don't know of a way to compute your strength loss when dieting. I only know that it will probably happen. You would think that when you diet your body would just use its surplus fat stores to provide energy. Unfortunately if you diet and don't work out your body actually only fills 50% of its energy needs from fat stores, the rest comes from muscle catabolism. Working out can minimize the loss of muscle as you are building muscle. But if you are not getting enough protein you can't build muscle. Carbs and fat in your diet don't have the amino acid building blocks required for building muscle.

I also read an article recently that talked about dieters depleting their glycogen reserves. Glycogen is stored in the muscles and fuels your muscles. When your glycogen stores are low your muscles have less fuel and so the problem you are seeing with reduced reps.

So to minimize muscle and strength losses try to get at least 30% of your calories or 1g to 1.5g per pound of lean body mass from protein. Hope this helped.

Thanks, that makes sense. I'll try to eat an energy bar/drink before working out and then eat/drink a protein bar afterwards. That is going to change my calories in/out deficet, but I guess it's worth slowing down the weight lose process if it prevents me from losing muscle/strength.

As rpmc mentioned, strength loss could be due to a couple of things: one, your muscle mass has been sacrificed as food for the body during calorie restriction, so your real strength is reduced, or you're simply low on muscle fuel, i.e., glycogen. If you work out often, then some carbohydrates are essential to replacing the muscle glycogen fast for your next workout, otherwise you burn out. Otherwise, you can generate enough free glucose through gluconeogenesis (conversion of amino acids and glycerol into glucose) to replenish intramuscular glycogen steadily over time.

Your muscles actually have two sources of fuel when lifting. The first 15-20 seconds of a lift run on the creatine phosphate system, which is like lighter fluid on a fire. After glycolysis (breakdown of glycogen) catches up, sometime after 15 seconds, the creatine system is depleted and shuts off. This is why athletes take creatine, to beef up the first system to give them a crucial few seconds of boost. Unfortunately, the supps give me really bad nausea, but you can get plenty of it from beef and fish. This will help improve reps per set also.

There are a couple of different calculators that can give you a numerical benchmark for size vs. strength. The one I use is the ranking calculator at Virtual Meet.

Thanks for the info guys. I have brought a 23g protein PowerBar to work today and I'll eat it about an hour before my workout. I raised my calories this weekend, so I feel as strong as I normally did before I started dieting. Today is chest day, so I'll get a good idea where my strength is at this point.
I have tried creatine in the distant past and stopped because I felt it was giving me cramps. I am thinking of trying it again to see if, in fact, it was the creatine or something else in my diet.
I am not expecting a miracle today, but if I improve from last Monday, then I'll make the investment in more energy bars/drinks. I would love to add more beef to my diet, but I have a hard time spending the money, the cost of good meat is outragous these days!
I was Elite on weight/strength calculator until I saw I was using the metric system. LOL

Hydration is of utmost importance with creatine. Stuff will suck the water right out of your muscles once it's in the bloodstream, then once it makes it's way into the cells, will suck the water out of the bloodstream. The first step leads to cramps, the second step causes nausea.

BMI is a pretty outdated statistic. When I was in high school I wrestled at the higher weights 160 and 171, and I was great shape, but even then my BMI was in the "overweight" range. It's odd for someone who was 13% bf at the time to be "overweight." It just goes to show you how flawed BMI is. The BMI index seems like it was made for those long and slender body types, when its applied to someone with a stockier more muscular build the chart can definitely be way off, not just a little off.

For example I'm 5-10 and 218lbs my BMI is 31 which puts me in obese range. I currently am 21% body fat which is actually on the low end of overweight. And when I reach my goal weight of 180 I will still be in the "overweight" range. To me it seems like the BMI chart thinks you should be all skin and bones or have the physique of a marathon runner, when I want the physique of a sprinter.

Same issue, I'm 5'9 157 lbs. and it says that my BMI is 23.1% but my body fat is really in the 12-14% range.

I am your height and I currently weigh 196 and my bf% is 17%. My doctor did my BMI, looked at me, and said this doesn't apply to you. I lift weights, do cardio, and yoga religiously and my blood work is all great. So don't worry about BMI. DO find someone who can do your body fat calculations regularly if you want to know your progress. In fact the only way I can be in the correct BMI range is to literally have NO body fat. Obviously, not an option.

whoever made the bmi chart wants everyone to be an ectomorph

I agree that BMI is not that useful but then we all think we're large framed.

I was once 185 lbs and 5'6" and had 12% according to calibers. Well, after about 10-12 years of sitting on the couch and eating poorly I'm now 230. Just had a bodpod done and I'm 43% bf.

So over the course of several years I've lose around 25-30 lbs of lean mass and replaced it weith 60 pounds of fat. My bone structure is large for my height 54" shoulders at 12% bf.

Inactivity and poor diet will strip you of a lot of lean mass.

I would not totally dismiss the BMI, but then again I would not get worked up about falling into the right categories.

JJ,

Just found this thread. Can I ask you how your BF% was determined?

I'm in the same boat. I'm 6 feet tall, and have always been in the overweight/obese column of the BMI chart. Even when I was 21 years old, in the best shape of my life, and working out several hours a day, my weight only got down to about 195. At that time, I couldn't "pinch an inch" of fat anywhere on my body.

My understanding is that the waist vs. neck method is prone to inaccuracy, calipers depend on the person doing it and where they pinch, and the only real way to get an accurate BMI test is to shell out the money for a hydrostatic water tank test.

My doctor promotes the idea that there is no gauge or method that is nearly as accurate as the mirror and your thumb and index finger. If you like how you look in the mirror and you pass the old special K test, then don't worry about the numbers.

I made my goal a couple weeks ago of 240. My long-term goal is to stay in the 230s, keep doing 4-5 full workouts with both cardio and resistances and keep with my jogging (doing 2- 5 mile runs a week). I feel like I'm in the best shape of my adult life but if I go by the BMI thing, I need to loose over 20 more pounds just to be in the normal range (I'm 6-5). I take it for what it is worth, an out of date government chart. My wife, family and friends all agree that I do not need to loose a lot more weight but I am still working on firming the belly some more. It also states that the normal healthy range for a person my height goes down to 156 pounds. 6-5 and 156 lbs. Not sure I can agree with that unless the guy has no muscle.

has anyone used the Omron fat loss monitor-----if so does it give reliable information or is it just a gimmick?

Do it! It's money well spent. I did it back in July and it was 49bux & 39 bux to retest. I'm re-testing Oct. 1st to see if I've gotten to my target BF% which is 10%.

I'm asking about the hand held BMI/BF% meter sold by OMRON.
Is it accurate or is it a gimmick?

What's the "special K test"?

I guess I showed my age by providing such a dated reference :)

Special K cereal used to have an ad campaign in which they would ask "can you pinch more than an inch," referring to belly fat.

Wow, I had no idea that they were so cheap! I expected 10x that much. Now I am thinking I will have to look into a hydrostatic test.

Bmi
 

I think the BMI is outdated. I use the Army tape system to check body fat and the mirror. For the bi-annual weigh in with the Army I am always below 192 which is the max Army says I can weigh. But I cross check it against body fat %, just in case the scale is off and I would have to pass the tape test. I always come in around 19-21% and Army allows up to 26% for someone my age (43). BMI says I am overweight, but Army says I am within standards....and I score between 260-280 out of 300 on my PT test too.

Long story short (too late) BMI doesnt mean much to me.

Well, what "they" fail to mention is that this chart was developed by the insurance industry to be a guideline to help assess risk when underwriting life insurance policies in the 30's or 40's. (can not remember exact time)
Just like the other guides...smoking, age, history of illness, family history, bla bla bla.

There are huge blunders in the scheme. It does not take into ethnic variations of people nor body types (people prone to holding muscle, fat, etc). And even more to the point, we have no idea who's ideal body everyone of us is expected to conform to!

But even more to the point, by making the ratios so tight to "acceptable standards" the insurance companies are able to indicate higher risk for those people who fall into the obese group, and as a result charge higher premiums and/or decline compensation.

I see a huge problem coming up with the First Lady's push for fitness. While I think it is a great idea to push fitness, more and more we are seeing this BMI model embedded in school systems, medical processes, work place employment screening...The standards are unrealistic for the majority of society. This will set the stage for more body dysmorphic issues to come for our young and the rest of us.

And I do not think for one minute anyone has really challenged how accurate these charts are to a society that is at least 50 years older which has access to better nutrition and health care. And access to more processed foods, additives.... etc.

As far as advise. Fitness wise with large joints sharp movements can lead to more joint issues down the road.

Try isometrics and shoot for core strength activities. 4 times a weeks- 20 minutes a day. That simple. You tube has lots of examples.


Diet:
Whole foods, little processed foods, lots of water -lots, apple cider vinegar, black strap molasses, lots of fruit and veggies, yogurt, olive oil-some butter no processed hydro-fats(-well, and potato chips- one must have a few vices).

Moderation, 6 meals a day- small.

To check your body fat level, if you can pinch more than an inch, you might want to consider cardio activity, anaerobic (weight lifting) and diet change to reduce some body fat.

Other than that...

Many many men and women are in your position.

It is a designed set up in my view.



Best.