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cinnamonsage 06-29-2010 02:36 AM

What foods do you eat in order to lose weight?
 
Hi Im new here and excited I found this site!!!:)


What types of food do you consume on a daily basis?

I am really ready to lose weight and was just wondering what foods to incorpate into my diet..

I would really love to focus on foods that will have flatten my abs


Thanks guys....

rpmcduff 06-29-2010 06:12 AM

You cannot spot reduce! This is a myth that the diet industry and the manufacturer of whatever the latest exercise device, that is meant to seperate your money from your wallet, perpetuate. Usually as you reduce your body fat percentage, some areas will respond while others are more stubborn. The stubborn areas will respond if you get your bodyfat % low enough.

What foods should you eat daily?
You need a variety of food to provide fat, carbohydrates and protein.

Again contrary to popular opinion fat is not bad for you. Fat does contain 9 calories per gram compared to 4 calories per gram for carbs and protein. So a small amount can add calories quickly. Fat is needed for essential bodily functions and without it you will have health problems. A minimum of 20% of your calories should come from fat. Fat has also been shown to have the ability to satiate hunger which is always important when dieting.
Good sources of healthy fats (mono- and polyunsaturated):
Nuts (I like unroasted almonds, natural peanut butter, walnuts)
Olive oil (I use extra virgin almost exclusively)

Carbohydrates come in two varieties complex (also called good carb) and simple (also called bad carbs). Simple carbs are not necessarily bad for you. The problem with simple carbs is that they are digested quickly. The good thing about simple carbs is they are digested quickly. Think of sugar. It is great for a quick short term energy boost and when your glycogen levels (the energy source for your muscles) are low, like after a workout, simple carbs are a great way to replenish your glycogen supply. But if your glycogen levels are full because you have been sitting in front of your computer, the carbs get stored as fat. Complex carbs take longer to digest so they provide a longer lasting energy source. Because they take longer to digest your body has a chance to burn off some of your glycogen supply before it tries to store the complex carbs as glycogen or fat. You should limit your simple carbs to the morning (after you haven't eaten for 6-8 hours and your glycogen supplies are low) or after a workout when your glycogen need refilled.
Complex carbs:
Vegetables
Fruit
Oatmeal
Whole Wheat/Whole Grain bread
Sweet potatoes
Simple Carbs:
Sugar
white flour (including white breads)
Fruit Juice
Soda
Alcohol (including hard liquor, wine and beer)

Protein is the only nutrient that has the chemical building blocks to repair and build muscle. Protein is very important when dieting. Weight loss from diet without exercise will be 50% from burning fat stores and 50% from catabolizing muscle. Losing muscle is a bad thing as muscle drives your metabolism when you have less your body burns less calories.
Protein sources:
Meat (Beef, turkey, tuna, fish, chicken, pork)
Beans (lentils, navy beans, pinto beans, soy beans,etc.)
Eggs
Dairy (milk, cottage cheese, yogurt)

Water (Not really a food, but essential just the same)

You should strive to get a minimum of 20% of your calories from fat, 30% from protein and the rest from carbohydrate (limiting simple carbs).

Hope this helps and good luck!

cinnamonsage 06-30-2010 03:36 PM

Thanks!!!

135for35 07-20-2010 07:26 PM

a simple rule I came up with is I try to eat foods that were eaten by people 500yrs ago.

This is basically animal meat, dairy products (cheese, milk. etc) fruits, veggies, potatoes and whole grains.

now obviously there are exceptions to this rule but for the bulk of my calories this is the philosophy that I find works well for me and makes my healthy food choices easier to make.

zorba1331 07-26-2010 07:55 PM

Meat, veg, some fruits (mostly berries) nuts and seeds.

No grains or anything processed. I don't care what colour your wheat is, steer clear. It all spikes your insulin and it all breaks down into the same=sugar.

If you are trying to lose weight keep your carb consumption to less than 100 grams per day and don't be afraid of eating the good fats and loads of protein. Multi-coloured big arse salads with lots of dark greens and other vegetables with good quality chicken, fish, etc will have you well on your way.

Uncured bacon and eggs is a great way to start the day.

Eat and eat plenty, just don't eat grains.

Want to know more as to why not grains?

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-g...are-unhealthy/

From the article:


We do not need grains to survive, let alone thrive. In fact, they are naturally selected to ward off pests, whether they be insects or hominids. I suggest we take the hint and stop eating them.

almeeker 07-26-2010 10:00 PM

I actually do eat grains when I'm dieting, but I stick to low-fat, low-cal, whole grains, approx 200 calories/day and no more. For those servings of grains I use whole wheat low-cal bread, whole wheat crackers, rye crispbread, rice cakes, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, etc etc.

I also have 3 servings of fresh or fresh frozen fruit, and I try to mix it up, like one apple, one banana, and maybe some berries. I also try to stick to locally grown fruit in season, well except for the bananas and oranges, which don't grow here in the north.

I eat as many fresh and fresh frozen veggies as I want. 3 servings of orange veggies/week minimum, and 2-3 servings of green leafies/day. I do limit the veggies that are high in carbs, like corn, peas, potatoes, to not more than 3 servings/week. Although in the summer when the garden is growing like mad, I eat whatever I picked today, forget the limitations. I figure if I put in the work to plant it, weed it, pick it, wash it and cook it, then I darn well have burnt enough calories to eat it.

Protein protein protein. There are a ton of sources for protein, some of my favorites are: eggs, cottage cheese, Greek yogurt, tuna, chicken, lean cold cuts, rf cheese, protein bars, protein shakes, etc etc. I do limit beef to not more than 3X/week. But that's not a "diet" rule so much as a personal preference. I like beef just fine, but have trouble digesting it, same for the greasier cuts of pork.

zorba1331 07-26-2010 10:42 PM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 16857)
I actually do eat grains when I'm dieting, but I stick to low-fat, low-cal, whole grains, approx 200 calories/day and no more. For those servings of grains I use whole wheat low-cal bread, whole wheat crackers, rye crispbread, rice cakes, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, etc etc.

=high carbs which leads means we have to 'diet' or watch what we eat.

Just don't eat grains or anything processed (by the way corn is a grain, it is what farmers feed to cows to fatten them up and get the best bang for their buck!) and you will never have to 'diet' again!

Great job on your weight loss to date, btw. (Just noticed it).

almeeker 07-27-2010 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by zorba1331 (Post 16863)
=high carbs which leads means we have to 'diet' or watch what we eat.

Just don't eat grains or anything processed (by the way corn is a grain, it is what farmers feed to cows to fatten them up and get the best bang for their buck!) and you will never have to 'diet' again!

Great job on your weight loss to date, btw. (Just noticed it).

Actually on cows and farmers you might be wrong. While bovine of any kind will certainly eat corn, stalk, cob and all, it's cost prohibitive to feed it to beef cattle, since corn is a cash crop to most farmers. So to feed corn to cattle would be about the same as feeding them dollar bills (which by the way, they would eat, since they will eat darn near anything). Beef cows are let out to pasture spring, summer and fall, and eat mainly grass, during the colder months they are usually fed 1st cutting hay, (the cheapest cutting) which consists of mostly grass and weeds. Some farmers use growth hormones in order to make them grow larger and stronger as fast as possible, which some claim to cause obesity in humans (I've eaten hormone-free beef for the last 20 years and was obese for most of that, so I don't necessarily agree on that point). Also truthfully most beef farmers are not the least bit interested in "fat" cattle, because that decreases the market value of the whole herd, and increases disease and health issues (ie vet bills). Dairy cows on the other hand are fed corn, which in turn they make into milk, which nature intended to be fed to a 200 pound baby cow, not an adult human. But I digress....

As to weather or not corn is a grain, it's a fine line. When most of us eat it off the cob, out of the can or frozen out of a bag, we tend to think of it as a vegetable. When it's dried and ground we think of it as a grain. And when it's divided and processed we think of it as a sugar or a starch. It's one of those foods that sits on top of the fence between categories, with a little something for every body.

On grains, I know a lot of people swear off white bread or grains of any kind, but in my experience it's not the route to good health. Several years ago our household went gluten-free after our dd was diagnosed with wheat allergy. After 4 years on that diet she outgrew her allergy and we have been able to gradually bring gluten grains back into the house. All I can tell you is that we are all much healthier now than we were the last days of being GF. There are nutrients in grains that aren't readily available from other sources, so to abstain completely might be good for your waistline, it's not so great for the color of your skin or the regularity of your GI track.

mtlgirl 07-27-2010 11:39 AM

I agree with you Almeeker. If I give up grains all together, my digestive system goes out of whack. Of course I totally avoid anything white, refined or processed but small portions of healthy grains are good for me.

Cinnamonsage, to get back to your original question, rpmcduff gave you a great response. If you follow his advice, you will definitely succeed. Also a couple of little "tricks" I was taught by a friend of mine who lost 90 pounds, who recommends using Apple Cider Vinegar in your salad dressing. It really is good for you and apparently helps in the process of weight loss. Also, great choice for a user name because "Cinnamon" is a great little spice to add to your smoothies, coffee, or oatmeal. And finally fennel is not only a great vegetable, it helps with digestion and fennel tea, is a wonderful herbal tea that promotes digestive health.

Of course what you eat is super important but exercise is just as important. I don't have a very good metabolism and if I don't exercise, I simply do not lose weight. I have been running 3X week, doing Jillian Michael's "30 Day Shred" 3X week and I add at least 2 power walks to that per week. It seems like a lot but the 30 Day Shred is a 20-minute workout and easy to squeeze into my morning routine.

Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum! :)

zorba1331 07-27-2010 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 16920)
Actually on cows and farmers you might be wrong. While bovine of any kind will certainly eat corn, stalk, cob and all, it's cost prohibitive to feed it to beef cattle, since corn is a cash crop to most farmers. So to feed corn to cattle would be about the same as feeding them dollar bills (which by the way, they would eat, since they will eat darn near anything). Beef cows are let out to pasture spring, summer and fall, and eat mainly grass, during the colder months they are usually fed 1st cutting hay, (the cheapest cutting) which consists of mostly grass and weeds. Some farmers use growth hormones in order to make them grow larger and stronger as fast as possible, which some claim to cause obesity in humans (I've eaten hormone-free beef for the last 20 years and was obese for most of that, so I don't necessarily agree on that point). Also truthfully most beef farmers are not the least bit interested in "fat" cattle, because that decreases the market value of the whole herd, and increases disease and health issues (ie vet bills). Dairy cows on the other hand are fed corn, which in turn they make into milk, which nature intended to be fed to a 200 pound baby cow, not an adult human. But I digress....

On an ideal, natural farm, what you describe is correct. Visit a feedlot sometime and tell me how much grass and hay those cows are eating. Most cows are started on grass when they are young and finished on 'grain', which is corn--100% corn, not sure, but corn is fed as well as a boatload of other garbage. Read this:

what do cows eat( ya gotta read this

Watch Food Inc, that will be an eye opener for starters. Grass-fed beef is very difficult to find and at a premium price when you do find it. Why? Because it is RARE that a big farming company feeds their cows the right, natural way which allows them to grown naturally.


As to weather or not corn is a grain, it's a fine line. When most of us eat it off the cob, out of the can or frozen out of a bag, we tend to think of it as a vegetable. When it's dried and ground we think of it as a grain. And when it's divided and processed we think of it as a sugar or a starch. It's one of those foods that sits on top of the fence between categories, with a little something for every body.
Corn is a grain, period. It doesn't matter what form, it is a grain. If you want to fool yourself thinking it is a veggie, that is fine, but it is a grain.

Corn Is Not a Vegetable | Mark's Daily Apple


After 4 years on that diet she outgrew her allergy and we have been able to gradually bring gluten grains back into the house. All I can tell you is that we are all much healthier now than we were the last days of being GF. There are nutrients in grains that aren't readily available from other sources, so to abstain completely might be good for your waistline, it's not so great for the color of your skin or the regularity of your GI track.
I would be curious as to what your diet was during that time. People get off grains and their skin clears up, their glow returns and their GI tract is just fine. Not only that people's blood pressure drops, their diabetes disappears and, like your family member, allergies disappear. People are brainwashed into thinking being 'regular' is highly important. Being regular often means you are just consistently pumping out a load of waste.

So she you say she 'outgrew' her allergy and then you put her back on whatever it was that likely gave her the allergy? Over time, her allergies will return with the accumulation of grains in her body.

There is NOTHING that you get from eating grains that you can't get from other foods. There is NO reason to eat grains.

Read this:

The Definitive Guide to Grains | Mark's Daily Apple

Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple

As for you being 'healthier now' I guess you are the one making that claim, but what are you basing that on? I see you have lost a lot of weight in the last year and that is awesome, but as far as you being healthier BECAUSE of grains, no. Most likely because of all the garbage you AREN'T eating and that you have chosen to exercise.

Our bodies are not genetically evolved to process grains the right way and with the HUGE amounts of carbs people eat each day because of grain based products, our bodies are in a constant state of inflammation and there are the plethora or diet related diseases.

zorba1331 07-27-2010 03:26 PM


Originally Posted by mtlgirl (Post 16921)
I agree with you Almeeker. If I give up grains all together, my digestive system goes out of whack. Of course I totally avoid anything white, refined or processed but small portions of healthy grains are good for me.

Please explain-how your digestive system 'goes out of whack'. I would like to hear your no grain experience from the past. There are no such thing as healthy grains. We don't need them. Read the above posted links or clarity. I see you are overweight and have only lost 10lbs since mid-may. Cutting out grains, fighting through the first 2 weeks of withdrawl from carbs/sugars will be a challenge, but once you are beyond that, you will reach your goal weight with relative ease. Grains=carbs=insulin spikes=fat storage. It really is as simple as that.


Of course what you eat is super important but exercise is just as important. I don't have a very good metabolism and if I don't exercise, I simply do not lose weight. I have been running 3X week, doing Jillian Michael's "30 Day Shred" 3X week and I add at least 2 power walks to that per week. It seems like a lot but the 30 Day Shred is a 20-minute workout and easy to squeeze into my morning routine.
Weight loss is 80% diet-related. You are working out a LOT and I feel you are getting limited results. It doesn't have to be as difficult as it has been. There is a way to lose weight, get healthy and eat as much great food as you want for the rest of your life. Your goal weight will come and go with little notice.

Keep your carbs to between 50-100 grams per day and the weight will drop off. That is, however, very difficult for grain eaters since a cup of oatmeal is 32 grams per carbs and two pieces of whole wheat bread is around 24 grams. Seems like a pretty healthy breakfast but one meal puts you at 56 grams of carbs--over half of you daily intake! What do I have for breakfast pretty much daily? Bacon and eggs or a huge omlette loaded with meats and veggies. Maybe some blueberries with some full fat greek yogurt if I feel like it.

At that rate throughout the day it is VERY difficult to have any kind of meaningful deficit without totally starving yourself. Nobody can sustain eating so little which is why pretty much everyone fails at their 'diet'. Who wants to eat like a mouse? Not me.

msgretchann 07-27-2010 10:52 PM

I think its important to have a balanced diet in order to lose weight, but more importantly to keep it off. There is strong scientific evidence that those who eat whole grains on a regular basis can reduce their risk of diabetes, heart disease, stroke, and cancer. Its very important to have whole grains in your diet to stay healthy and reach weight loss goals.

If you are serious about losing weight consider your intensity level in your workouts. Are you building a "serious sweat" during your workouts, this can be an indication that your workout aren't hard enough.

zorba1331 07-28-2010 11:00 PM


Originally Posted by msgretchann (Post 16983)
I think its important to have a balanced diet in order to lose weight, but more importantly to keep it off. There is strong scientific evidence that those who eat whole grains on a regular basis can reduce their risk of diabetes, heart disease, stroke, and cancer. Its very important to have whole grains in your diet to stay healthy and reach weight loss goals.

Source??

Quite the opposite, in fact. People with diabetes, high blood pressure, allergies, arthritis, obesity, inflammation, heart disease, lupus, and the list goes on.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-g...are-unhealthy/

A case study:

G7 Stories - Veronica Garza on Vimeo

Not only are they not on their drugs anymore, they don't suffer from the same ailments. Grains and processed foods are a major reason for the onset of these ailments.


If you are serious about losing weight consider your intensity level in your workouts. Are you building a "serious sweat" during your workouts, this can be an indication that your workout aren't hard enough.
80% of weight loss is dietary.

mtlgirl 07-29-2010 12:00 AM


Originally Posted by zorba1331 (Post 16939)
Please explain-how your digestive system 'goes out of whack'. I would like to hear your no grain experience from the past. There are no such thing as healthy grains. We don't need them. Read the above posted links or clarity. I see you are overweight and have only lost 10lbs since mid-may. Cutting out grains, fighting through the first 2 weeks of withdrawl from carbs/sugars will be a challenge, but once you are beyond that, you will reach your goal weight with relative ease. Grains=carbs=insulin spikes=fat storage. It really is as simple as that.

Okay you have definitely piqued my interest... I have tried to eliminate grains and once I do, I get constipated. To me that is not a healthy reaction.

As for me "only losing 10lbs since mid-May," your advice would be much better received if you didn't communicate so condescendingly. May 26th was my start date and that is not midway through the month. I have lost 11 pounds in exactly 9 weeks and I am happy with that. Unfortunately it is difficult for me to lose weight but for an overweight person, I am in very good shape. I have NEVER had high blood pressure, high cholesterol or any health problems of any kind. I keep my carb intake around 40% and I eat natural whole foods like fruits, vegetables, lean protein including fish, chicken and lamb. I avoid anything white, bleached or enriched.

I think sharing knowledge is a wonderful thing and I am always open to learning something new so I will click on some of the links you have provided, however I will never believe that bacon and eggs is a healthy breakfast. I do love Greek yogurt though!

almeeker 07-29-2010 01:45 AM


Originally Posted by mtlgirl (Post 17066)
Okay you have definitely piqued my interest... I have tried to eliminate grains and once I do, I get constipated. To me that is not a healthy reaction.

When we eliminated gluten in our house I swung wildly from constipation to the trots, with no middle ground. Neither end of that spectrum is a comfortable or healthy way to live. Truthfully I've always had a touchy GI system, and the only time in my life I've been "regular" is when I have a low-fat, low-cal, low-carb, high protein diet, which includes 1-2 small servings of whole grains. This works for me, and I will never be convinced that the GI rollercoaster that a grain-free diet had me riding is "better" or "healthier" for my body.

zorba1331 07-29-2010 06:04 AM


Originally Posted by mtlgirl (Post 17066)
Okay you have definitely piqued my interest... I have tried to eliminate grains and once I do, I get constipated. To me that is not a healthy reaction.

You might want to read this:

Why Do Doctors Recommend Fiber For Constipation When The Federal Drug Administration Says It Is Against The LaWhy Do Doctors Recommend Fiber?


As for me "only losing 10lbs since mid-May," your advice would be much better received if you didn't communicate so condescendingly. May 26th was my start date and that is not midway through the month. I have lost 11 pounds in exactly 9 weeks and I am happy with that.
That's great. I bet you would be happier with more, right? 2-3 lbs is reasonable, healthy and attainable weight loss.


Unfortunately it is difficult for me to lose weight but for an overweight person, I am in very good shape.
Of course it is, it is difficult for ANYONE to lose weight and still eat grains. You are working against yourself.


I have NEVER had high blood pressure, high cholesterol or any health problems of any kind. I keep my carb intake around 40% and I eat natural whole foods like fruits, vegetables, lean protein including fish, chicken and lamb. I avoid anything white, bleached or enriched.
White or brown grains are grains and they break down to the same thing=sugar. Your insulin level spikes and unless you are lacing up your shoes to run for a long time, it will get stored as fat.


I think sharing knowledge is a wonderful thing and I am always open to learning something new so I will click on some of the links you have provided, however I will never believe that bacon and eggs is a healthy breakfast. I do love Greek yogurt though!
There are LOADS of people on that site who have lost and continue to lose loads of weight while enjoying uncured bacon and Omega 3 laden eggs daily.

Before and after pics

Conventional wisdom used to say eggs were bad, now they are good but without the yolk, now the yolk is good. It is very confusing isn't it?

The reality is you are overweight and are looking to lose weight. Here is a good question: How did you get overweight to begin with? How about try something different! If you want something different, do something different and you might be pleasantly surprised. What have you really got to lose but...well...weight???!

I apologize if you feel I have been condescending, but the reality is people don't need grains. 66% of americans are fat due to their belief in conventional wisdom regarding their diet and their unwillingness to let go of ideals that have never really worked for them in the first place.

zorba1331 07-29-2010 06:09 AM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 17077)
When we eliminated gluten in our house I swung wildly from constipation to the trots, with no middle ground. Neither end of that spectrum is a comfortable or healthy way to live. Truthfully I've always had a touchy GI system, and the only time in my life I've been "regular" is when I have a low-fat, low-cal, low-carb, high protein diet, which includes 1-2 small servings of whole grains.

You also ought to read this:

Why Do Doctors Recommend Fiber For Constipation When The Federal Drug Administration Says It Is Against The LaWhy Do Doctors Recommend Fiber?


This works for me, and I will never be convinced that the GI rollercoaster that a grain-free diet had me riding is "better" or "healthier" for my body.
Yeah...but you also believe that cows are fed grass and all that stuff...

Independent Lens . KING CORN . Corn-Fed: Cows and Corn | PBS

midwestj 07-29-2010 05:53 PM

First of to say Americans are fat because they eat too many whole grains that break down into sugar is silly. I don't think anyone out there is getting fat off rye bread and oatmeal. Secondly all food that is not protein, or fat, breaks down to sugar or indigestible cellulose, so tell us to avoid grains because they break down into sugar is also silly.

Zorba we get it that you are a fanatic of mark's daily apple, but you need to take a step off your soap box and stop talking down to the members here. Many members here have achieved REAL DOCUMENTED weight loss, using many different methods, to go around telling them they are wrong and only your method is right, is more than a little conceded.

You should try being more polite. Suggestions are helpful and encouragement is even better, but when I read most of your posts I dislike the mood. I think the way you post your messages is very unbecoming of fitday. If you are going to continue to preach mark's daily apple up and down these boards how about you start off by making your log public, and document your weight loss for us.

yauncin 07-29-2010 07:32 PM

@midwestj
You know, I've been expecting this.

@zorba1331
Not that I haven't found your posts interesting, but people don't like to be told they are wrong all the time. And while I know you are trying to be helpful, tone is everything when communicating with our fellow human beings. Also be careful in making "Mark's Daily Apple" a panacea. It's not that I don't agree with a lot of points which have been made but the biochemistry of the human body is very complex. We are only just now beginning to understand it.

midwestj 07-29-2010 08:33 PM

just trying to prevent these boards from going sour

almeeker 07-29-2010 08:59 PM


Originally Posted by zorba1331 (Post 17086)
Yeah...but you also believe that cows are fed grass and all that stuff...

Did I mention that my family owns a farm and raises beef cattle? So not only do I believe that cows are fed grass, I know it for a fact. And our farm is pretty much like all the other dairy and beef farms around here and yes they all feed their cows grass too. Why? Because grass just grows right up out of the ground and it's FREE for the price of munching. Corn isn't free, you either have to buy it, or you have to give over a portion of your real estate for 100 days and grow it.

I feel quite certain that zorb is intentionally inflammatory simply for the sake of advertising another website, which in my book is spam. So I'm done being insulted and explaining myself. I'm not going to read any more posts by zorb, and I urge the rest of you to do the same. Poof gone, no more zorb....

mtlgirl 07-29-2010 10:00 PM

Not only is the biochemistry of the human body very complex and not fully understood yet, there are just as many scientific studies that will argue that the human body has evolved since the time before agriculture became standard practice, and therefore whole grains are easily digested by those who have no allergies to them. Some people are lactose intolerant. That doesn't mean no one should drink milk, peanut allergies are also common and perhaps some cavemen died from peanuts. The point I'm making is just because a few doctors or scientists say that grains are bad for us, that is not conclusive enough for me to radically change my diet to totally eliminate a whole food group.

The average life span of the paleolithic human was 35 years so the reality is we don't even know what would happen to their bodies after 70 years of eating such a diet. I don't know a lot of people who suffer from diet-related illnesses before they turn 35 so is it reasonable to say that we should eat the way Paleolithic people ate thousands and thousands of years ago because they were healthier? We are all pretty damn healhty before 35 years of age.

Another point Zorba made which I find completely impossible to back up scientifically is that 66% of Americans are fat because they eat grains. That is simply his opinion. I believe so many of us are overweight because of portion size and the quality of the food we eat.

I agree with Almeeker, I believe Zorba is a troll and I am now done feeding the troll. If he didn't want to come across as a troll, he should have used a different tone and perhaps not presented his beliefs as fact, refuting everyone else's opinions and minimizing their successes.

Also, thank you Midwestj. I thought what you said was very well expressed and I appreciate it a lot.

nottango 07-29-2010 10:34 PM

Agree with almeeker and mtl. Just be glad we're not all stuck in the same room with the extremist individual who's trying to convert newcomers to his (icky!) way of eating! I can only imagine how much fun he is at parties...if he gets invited...

midwestj 07-30-2010 12:13 AM

To the OP take a look at my food logs, I'm on a pretty conventional healthy diet that you don't have to make a whole lot of change to achieve. Just start by eating healthy conscience choices and recording your intake.

I've lost 9 pounds in 23 days, and lost inches too. I do about a 50% carb 30% prot and 20% fat ratio.

To you other guys, just be proud of what you have accomplished and strive for more, I think were all doing great!

btw mtl are you a hockey fan? Its wierd I actually want winter to come so I can get out on the ice again.

zorba1331 07-30-2010 12:33 AM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 17136)
Did I mention that my family owns a farm and raises beef cattle? So not only do I believe that cows are fed grass, I know it for a fact. And our farm is pretty much like all the other dairy and beef farms around here and yes they all feed their cows grass too. Why? Because grass just grows right up out of the ground and it's FREE for the price of munching. Corn isn't free, you either have to buy it, or you have to give over a portion of your real estate for 100 days and grow it.

Awesome. Your farm is one that I would like to buy my meat from.

The vast majority of the meat that this nation consume is grain fed (which is primarily corn). High fructose corn syrup is in everything from toilet paper to ketchup to meat. To deny the fact that the MAJORITY of big lot farms feed their cows corn and any other kind of garbage is either naive or ignorant. It is FAR cheaper to feed a cow corn and have him to slaughter in 15 months as opposed to letting the cow mature naturally in the usual 24 months that it ought to take. That is 9 months that they are saving in feed and vet bills. So, yeah, they grow 'em faster with corn because it is cheaper.


I feel quite certain that zorb is intentionally inflammatory simply for the sake of advertising another website, which in my book is spam. So I'm done being insulted and explaining myself. I'm not going to read any more posts by zorb, and I urge the rest of you to do the same. Poof gone, no more zorb....
I simply draw reference to that site because he can articulate it much better than I. There are other people to look to as well. Dr. Gundry and

Nutrition News and Notes

The thing is, people don't want to hear something that they are doing is incorrect. I get that. I felt like an idiot too when was told that eating 6 small meals a day was preventing the body from going into starvation mode was bogus (I mean really...only a few hours of not eating is going to cause us to go into starvation mode? How about 4 days--that makes more sense).

zorba1331 07-30-2010 12:44 AM


Originally Posted by mtlgirl (Post 17143)
Not only is the biochemistry of the human body very complex and not fully understood yet, there are just as many scientific studies that will argue that the human body has evolved since the time before agriculture became standard practice, and therefore whole grains are easily digested by those who have no allergies to them. Some people are lactose intolerant. That doesn't mean no one should drink milk, peanut allergies are also common and perhaps some cavemen died from peanuts. The point I'm making is just because a few doctors or scientists say that grains are bad for us, that is not conclusive enough for me to radically change my diet to totally eliminate a whole food group.

The human body stopped evolving right around 10 000 years ago when grains were introduced into our diet. We DON'T respond well to grains which is why there are multiple dietary related diseases running rampant in our society.

Lactose intolerant IS normal. NO mammal on earth drinks milk beyond infancy besides humans. Not one. Being able to digest milk is actually a genetic mutation that has that person still able to produce lactase beyond infancy which isn't supposed to happen.

The evidence that grains are bad for us is far well known beyond 'just a few doctors' the problem is that there is HUGE subsidies and money handed out to farmers and lobbyist to protect the food/grain industry. Big Pharmacuetical company's control a great deal in this country as well, they WANT people sick and taking drugs daily in order to make money.


The average life span of the paleolithic human was 35 years so the reality is we don't even know what would happen to their bodies after 70 years of eating such a diet. I don't know a lot of people who suffer from diet-related illnesses before they turn 35 so is it reasonable to say that we should eat the way Paleolithic people ate thousands and thousands of years ago because they were healthier? We are all pretty damn healhty before 35 years of age.
Ahh, yes, the lifespan argument...often children died at birth skewing the life span, but our ancestors had to deal with things like predators on a daily basis. Infection was from injury and injury related deaths were also a reason for early death.

Yahoo! Our lifespan is much longer, but we are all sick, fat and on some sort of drug to keep us from keeling over! It is one thing to live a long life, but thriving within that lifespan is an entirely different animal.


Another point Zorba made which I find completely impossible to back up scientifically is that 66% of Americans are fat because they eat grains. That is simply his opinion. I believe so many of us are overweight because of portion size and the quality of the food we eat.
Exactly. The fact that the food that we eat is grain based (where do you thing high-fructose corn syrup comes from--corn...which is a grain........). We eat too much crap food and grains whether it be in the hidden form or flat out from eating whole grains are the culprit. Now you are catching on!

zorba1331 07-30-2010 01:30 AM


Originally Posted by midwestj (Post 17124)
First of to say Americans are fat because they eat too many whole grains that break down into sugar is silly.

No, no it isn't. What do you think happens to that huge helping of whole wheat pasta breaks down?


I don't think anyone out there is getting fat off rye bread and oatmeal.
Alone? Nope. I have read many food logs where people are eating up to 250 grams of carbs per day and they wonder why they feel like they are working against themselves.


Secondly all food that is not protein, or fat, breaks down to sugar or indigestible cellulose, so tell us to avoid grains because they break down into sugar is also silly.
Ummmm...wrong again, check your science and then get back to me.


Zorba we get it that you are a fanatic of mark's daily apple, but you need to take a step off your soap box and stop talking down to the members here. Many members here have achieved REAL DOCUMENTED weight loss, using many different methods, to go around telling them they are wrong and only your method is right, is more than a little conceded.
That's awesome that people are losing weight, but weight loss and health aren't always hand in hand. Oh and it isn't MY method at all. The thing is, it is SOOO SIMPLE yet people want to complicate it with all the sillinenss. Cut out grains, exercise and the weight will drop off. Period.

I thought this was a food forum where people are to share ideas and back those ideas with evidence which is exactly what I have done. The issue isn't with me, it is with those who would rather stick their hands over their ears and yell blah, blah, blah, blah...I don't want to hear it because it is different!

I have been direct, yes, but it isn't really my issue if people can't handle hearing something that flies in the face of their firm beliefs. Going against the 'grain', so to speak, sometimes makes one unpopular. Dr. Atkins was threatened with his life because of his beliefs (correct albeit) about diet.

People were also quite irritated at the suggestion that the earth was not flat...


You should try being more polite. Suggestions are helpful and encouragement is even better, but when I read most of your posts I dislike the mood. I think the way you post your messages is very unbecoming of fitday. If you are going to continue to preach mark's daily apple up and down these boards how about you start off by making your log public, and document your weight loss for us.
I don't have much to lose so my log would be pretty boring. At worst I have maybe been 10 lbs overweight. I have never had a weight issue. I am living the Primal lifestyle because it makes sense and it is closer to the way we were genetically designed to live. I am trying to lean out and get that six pack that I have never had before (because of eating an abundance of 'healthy whole grains and healthy fruit smoothies') and I came to fitday as a means of keeping tabs on my carb intake--then I found the forum.

I do CrossFit 3x per week, cut out grains and sugar (ice cream was a daily thing for me as well as whole wheat toast and rye bread--no, I wasn't overweight, but I have never been lean either.) Gone are the constant changes in energy levels and headaches no longer exist as well as any general aches and pains that I used to get. I don't have that feeling of 'gotta eat' because my insulin levels are far more stable. I never get that bloated, full feeling after a meal anymore and as a result would rather go for a nice walk after dinner as opposed to flopping on the couch in front of the tv. My world doesn't have to revolve around food anymore, I can go hours without eating and feel fine. When I do eat, I enjoy as much healthy, tasty food as I like.

My friend, however, has had a great deal of success living Primal. He has lost 60 lbs since the middle of March. His inflammation has gone down considerably, his energy level is skyrocketing and his performance at CrossFit is improving weekly. He is doing things that he never thought possible and he isn't rationing, restricting calories or stressing about every little food item that gets put into his mouth. He eats as much as he wants and continues to drop at a rate of 3 lbs per week.


People should try not being so defensive or sensitive. Weight loss is easy, but countless people want change without making meaningful changes.

Have a look at the Primal Blueprint because it works, not because I said so. If I made the hair on some people's neck bristle, fine, but don't use that as a reason to not learn about something that really is a healthy and successful way to live life. I have nothing to gain by people checking it out. I share because it makes sense and it works. There are loads of success stories and reasons to buy in on their forum. Go ahead and take a chance...go against the grain...

mtlgirl 07-30-2010 01:31 AM

The argument that the human body stopped evolving 10 000 years ago is not conclusive. There are arguments against this statement by qualified medical studies. No, I will not cite them here because I am not as passionate to win this argument as you are. If you want to believe that this Primal Blueprint is the panacea that you have made it out to be, that's fine with me. The truth as I have observed it is that for several of its claims there are qualified counter arguments.

Who cares why the Paleolithic people died young, I am just saying that without any of them living well into old age, it's impossible to conclude what the long term effects of their diet is on our bodies today, 10 000 years later. Why would you believe that human evolution would suddenly stop 10 000 years ago anyway? It doesn't seem plausible to me. In fact I am willing to put money on the notion that we are still evolving. Many years from now we won't have wisdom teeth. That is called evolution.

As for your quote, "Our lifespan is much longer, but we are all sick, fat and on some sort of drug to keep us from keeling over!"

If this is truly what you believe, I feel very sad for you. What an angry and negative perspective you have on the world and people as a whole. So basically you are saying that if a person is overweight or a person is on medication their life has no value? I would counter that by saying, "Yahoo! You are in great shape and have a lot of energy so you will live a long time, but who wants to live with that much vitriol against their fellow human being. Is life worth living when you are spiritually and emotionally sicker than any of us here?"

mtlgirl 07-30-2010 01:35 AM


Originally Posted by midwestj (Post 17154)
btw mtl are you a hockey fan? Its wierd I actually want winter to come so I can get out on the ice again.

Well being from Montreal, of course I am a hockey fan! I don't play hockey (good for you for playing!) but I sure do watch when we are in the playoffs! I do love to skate though! :)

zorba1331 07-30-2010 01:44 AM


Originally Posted by mtlgirl (Post 17159)
The argument that the human body stopped evolving 10 000 years ago is not conclusive. There are arguments against this statement by qualified medical studies. No, I will not cite them here because I am not as passionate to win this argument as you are. If you want to believe that this Primal Blueprint is the panacea that you have made it out to be, that's fine with me. The truth as I have observed it is that for several of its claims there are qualified counter arguments.

It isn't inconclusive. The conclusion on one hand is based on the poor manner in which we process our food. We didn't have the diet related issues then that we have now. I like how people like to make claims yet don't bother to make any effort to back their claim and I am the one who is not behaving properly in the forum lol!


Who cares why the Paleolithic people died young, I am just saying that without any of them living well into old age, it's impossible to conclude what the long term effects of their diet is on our bodies today, 10 000 years later.
Without any of them living well into old age? You don't believe that they all died at 35 do you. You understand that their average life span at 35 means their mean, not their max age, right?


Why would you believe that human evolution would suddenly stop 10 000 years ago anyway? It doesn't seem plausible to me. In fact I am willing to put money on the notion that we are still evolving. Many years from now we won't have wisdom teeth. That is called evolution.
I don't believe that we suddenly stopped, but genetically our bodies aren't designed to deal with the modern diet. The evidence in this lies in the ailments and illness that are rampant in our society.

RE: wisdom teeth---?? huh??? source??


As for your quote, "Our lifespan is much longer, but we are all sick, fat and on some sort of drug to keep us from keeling over!"

If this is truly what you believe, I feel very sad for you.
This isn't what I believe, this is fact. The level of obesity in this country is at an all time high and climbing.

Obesity rates in America

Obesity and Overweight for Professionals: Data and Statistics: U.S. Obesity Trends | DNPAO | CDC

Obesity rates rise throughout USA


What an angry and negative perspective you have on the world and people as a whole. So basically you are saying that if a person is overweight or a person is on medication their life has no value?
Nope, that isn't what I am saying at all and the fact that you draw that parallel is laughable.


I would counter that by saying, "Yahoo! You are in great shape and have a lot of energy so you will live a long time, but who wants to live with that much vitriol against their fellow human being. Is life worth living when you are spiritually and emotionally sicker than any of us here?"
Wow...what a conclusion you have drawn, all because you refuse to do any research that may go against what you believe to be true. Methinks someone is a wee bit closed minded here...

Keep in mind, I USED to be a full on believer in whole grains and ate bread at every meal. I was never fat or unhealthy, but I made a change because I got some education and the research that I have done makes sense and there is independent (not government driven propaganda) that supports it.

zorba1331 07-30-2010 01:49 AM

@midwestj--I read your food log and WOW you average about 260 grams of carbs per day!

You also seem to really have to work out hard in the gym--no kidding! Eating that many carbs per day you would have to.

It just doesn't have to be that difficult.

The notion is to eat as much great food as you want and exercise is something that you do that feels good and isn't 'work' and that everything is sustainable for life.

mtlgirl 07-30-2010 01:58 AM

Zorba, you are ridiculous and condescending. You know nothing about me and my abilities to do research. You are outspoken and beligerant.

I should not have engaged you in the first place. Please do us all a favor and stay off this forum. Why do you feel such a compulsive need to convince us all that your fad diet is the only way to live? I actually agree with a lot of your points but if you think for one second you can continuously provide a link to some web site and cite that as fact, then you are the one who needs a lesson in research. You can't even stay on point. No one argued with you that the level of obesity is at an all time high and yet you keep throwing that in our faces.

Every single one of us members here, came to this forum because we were looking to exhange ideas and find support. You have rammed your opinions down our throats and whenever one of us argues your point, you respond with words like, "Wrong!" and ask for a source. Please let it go and move on. I have nothing more to add.

zorba1331 07-30-2010 02:21 AM


Originally Posted by mtlgirl (Post 17164)
Zorba, you are ridiculous and condescending. You know nothing about me and my abilities to do research. You are outspoken and beligerant.

Wow. Are you allowed to get personal and draw conclusions about people on this forum? Kind of harsh.


I should not have engaged you in the first place.
But you did, and when you found that your arguments were straw man at best, you needed to result in personal attacks.


Please do us all a favor and stay off this forum. Why do you feel such a compulsive need to convince us all that your fad diet is the only way to live?
LOL fad diet! Yeah, the way our ancestors ate and lived was SUCH a fad lol...wow.


I actually agree with a lot of your points but if you think for one second you can continuously provide a link to some web site and cite that as fact, then you are the one who needs a lesson in research.
There is NOTHING that I have stated that is made up or contrived or driven by the best interest of large corporations: eat meat, vegetables, fruits nuts and seeds...yeah...THAT sounds like a fad lol!


You can't even stay on point. No one argued with you that the level of obesity is at an all time high and yet you keep throwing that in our faces.
Um, you did. You basically said that it was my 'belief' and my 'view of the world'...I simply provided the facts to support my 'belief'.


Every single one of us members here, came to this forum because we were looking to exhange ideas and find support. You have rammed your opinions down our throats and whenever one of us argues your point, you respond with words like, "Wrong!" and ask for a source. Please let it go and move on. I have nothing more to add.
People are on this forum to lose weight, yet the advice given is counter-productive or unsustainable for lifelong change. Living Primal is not only healthy but it is a sustainable way to thrive. Yeah, I am passionate about it because I live it and it is easy. Sorry, but when I am challenged on what I know to be true, I don't go away quietly.

Grains are not only unnecessary, they are flat out unhealthy. I have provided evidence to support that and the nation is a walking billboard for that. What more do you need?

Conventional wisdom runs rampant throughout this forum and as soon as conventional wisdom gets challenged, I guess you subject yourself to personal attack.

*shrug* who knew?

midwestj 07-30-2010 04:52 AM

Its really too bad there aren't moderators here.

When you said you have never dealt with a weight issue you have lost all credibility in my book, no matter how much "science" you think you are backing it up with. I'll write this is caps so you get it: YOU CAN'T GIVE WEIGHT LOSS ADVICE TO PEOPLE WHEN YOU HAVE NO WEIGHT LOSS TO SHOW FOR YOUR OWN ADVICE.

I went to college and LEARNED how to research, the first thing I learned was be subjective about everything you learn. They also told me to be careful when gathering information from .com websites.

You seem more brainwashed by whats on that website than anything, and you certainly don't seem very subjective.

Don't tell us you are trying to help us, the way you spread your message makes you sound like some know it all jerk with an anti social personality and a fetish for being right. You'll pull anything out of your bag of tricks to try and win an argument. You single handedly deteriorated this discussion topic into something that smells worse than those cavemen you strive to be like. You are there on a personal communication level let me tell you that much.

I'm going to stop posting here in this topic.

And Zorba you owe an apology to the main poster.

crazycat0221 07-31-2010 08:34 PM

Have you tried egg whites? I scramble them and chop up onion, fresh tomatoes, and clontro. I all so like to put hot pepper flakes in them. I buy the the egg whites by the milk carten. I use them for my hubby's fried egg sandwicthes to. They are very low in cal. and can be filling for breakfast. :)

Devansh21 09-16-2021 10:03 AM

Eat 3-4 servings of raw fruits and vegetables daily.
grapefruit, watermelon,
oranges, gooseberry, strawberry, kiwi, mangoes
berries, grapes


Alicia96 09-21-2021 08:41 AM

Everything. Because all products have benefits

Gazoline5 10-11-2021 01:29 PM

to lose weight, I prefer to eat healthy food without harmful chemical additives. i like smoked food. I think it's tasty and healthy. I do not buy smoked products in stores. I prefer to cook them myself in my smoker. I carefully chose the smoker for myself, read a lot of reviews and looked at the reviews. it helped me to choose a quality product. sure you should get this too

AvaRoss 10-13-2021 10:27 AM

you know..this has been so informative. i dont think i would found all this at one place anywhere else. Thanks!

LittleNightmare 10-20-2021 02:57 PM

I try to eat a lot of vegetables, fruits, grains and natural protein.
I eat a lot of greens, red vegetables, green vegetables, yellow vegetables.
Bananas, strawberries, apples, mangoes, pineapples.
A lot of different cereals, quinoa, wheat, buckwheat.
Eggs, cottage cheese, legumes, nuts, dried fruits.


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