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RunbikeSki 08-22-2011 03:32 AM

TEAM FITDAY: Running and walking club
 
Hi all and welcome all.

This tread is for all of us working up to a race, a personal record, or just getting off the couch. Although I may have highlighted the running part of the club, walkers, stollers, and plodders are welcomed and encouraged.

The idea is to post a goal and then share your ups and downs (probably even more imporant... we're here to support one another) as you progress.

GOAL: 10K (Mission Inn, Riverside CA) Nov. 13.
I would like to do it in sub 9 minute miles.

I have use the "Run less, Run Faster" by Bill Pierse, Scott Murr and Ray Moss to train for other races and will continue this time. Their philosophy is 1 speed training day, 1 tempo run, and 1 long run per week. Each has a specific training goal with no "junk miles" as some refer to them.

So Monday I begin the 12 week training program.

What's your goal?

VitoVino 08-22-2011 03:44 AM

My personal goal is that I get myself back into good shape where I can do a 50 mile bike ride (on my road bike, not mountain bike) by mid October and not feel exhausted by doing it.

Oh, I'm sorry, you didn't mention biking! ;)

Well in that case, another personal goal is to be able to run 2.5 miles, non stop, by sometime in November. Right now I've been so overweight and out of shape that my achilles tendons have been really aching, so I'm sticking to walking/jogging along with bike riding until the weight comes down more.

01gt4.6 08-22-2011 03:45 AM

I have a 1/2 marathon in a couple weeks. I won't be able to run at all due to a back injury so my goal is to just finish. If I can do it in 3h 16m I'd be happy. I just hope this epidural does well and lasts until then.

handcycle2005 08-22-2011 04:10 AM

I was a runner from 1976-2004 when i was disabled in a traffic accident.
I also coach high school cross-country and track.

if anyone has any questions, feel free.

VitoVino, I'm concerned about your Achilles.
A few questions:
How long have your tendons been hurting?
How high are the heels on your running shoes compared to your street shoes?
Are you stretching?
Are you icing the tendons?

I would recommend you not run until you're pain-free.
If cycling is pain-free, you can do that. Swimming and water running are other options.

RunbikeSki 08-22-2011 04:48 AM


Originally Posted by VitoVino (Post 54414)
My personal goal is that I get myself back into good shape where I can do a 50 mile bike ride (on my road bike, not mountain bike) by mid October and not feel exhausted by doing it.

Oh, I'm sorry, you didn't mention biking! ;)

Well in that case, another personal goal is to be able to run 2.5 miles, non stop, by sometime in November. Right now I've been so overweight and out of shape that my achilles tendons have been really aching, so I'm sticking to walking/jogging along with bike riding until the weight comes down more.

Cycling is fine too :p. Welcome - it is more about goal setting and the steps to acheivement than the specific activity.

VitoVino 08-22-2011 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by handcycle2005 (Post 54417)
VitoVino, I'm concerned about your Achilles.
A few questions:
How long have your tendons been hurting?
How high are the heels on your running shoes compared to your street shoes?
Are you stretching?
Are you icing the tendons?

I would recommend you not run until you're pain-free.
If cycling is pain-free, you can do that. Swimming and water running are other options.


Thanks. I've had this issue before in the past after not having run for a while. It always went away with a new pair of Asics.

I've been using a pair that has less than 100 miles on them, but the issue may be that they are about 5 years old. I've heard that shoes need to be replaced after a year whether they are used or not because things break down in them. Is this true?

Anyway, the good news is, the problem is going away, not getting worse. The tendons have been hurting for about a month though. Now it's almost gone, but at times it was difficult to walk. No, I'm not stretching them out although I know I should. Is there a recommended stretch for this? I haven't been icing, but I've been massaging and using icy hot. Also magnet therapy during sleep (which helps).

I've decided to just not run with my fat belly until my weight is closer to 160 or below. Right now the weight is melting off just by going gonzo on the mountain bike. I'm getting good cardio by doing intervals and pushing big gears. So I'm thinking why risk doing damage to my tendons by running right now?

lastri 08-22-2011 02:27 PM

I have a 10K in Oct 2, and I wanted to just finish strong. PR is not matter right now.
Another goal is to be able to bike for 20 miles before winter come. Right now I have a mountain bike on the pave trail. When I hit my goal, I would consider to get a road bike. I heard that road bike is much lighter, so you can go faster.
Mai

almeeker 08-22-2011 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by lastri (Post 54441)
I have a 10K in Oct 2, and I wanted to just finish strong. PR is not matter right now.
Another goal is to be able to bike for 20 miles before winter come. Right now I have a mountain bike on the pave trail. When I hit my goal, I would consider to get a road bike. I heard that road bike is much lighter, so you can go faster.
Mai

My mountain bike weighs just over 7 lbs., DH's mountain bike is even lighter. There are very light road bikes, but the lighter they are the more they cost. What kind of bike do you ride?

I don't have a particular race in mind, but I would like to find a local 5K that is not too expensive and finish in less than 40 minutes. I'm not a runner, but I can walk rather fast when I put my mind to it. The hospital PT center has an indoor iron man, it's on the tread the stationary bike and the elliptical, and possibly the bench press? Anyway I'm going to research that one and see if I can participate. Last year I think it was in Feb or Mar.

handcycle2005 08-22-2011 03:00 PM


Originally Posted by VitoVino (Post 54426)
Thanks. I've had this issue before in the past after not having run for a while. It always went away with a new pair of Asics.

I've been using a pair that has less than 100 miles on them, but the issue may be that they are about 5 years old. I've heard that shoes need to be replaced after a year whether they are used or not because things break down in them. Is this true?

Anyway, the good news is, the problem is going away, not getting worse. The tendons have been hurting for about a month though. Now it's almost gone, but at times it was difficult to walk. No, I'm not stretching them out although I know I should. Is there a recommended stretch for this? I haven't been icing, but I've been massaging and using icy hot. Also magnet therapy during sleep (which helps).

I've decided to just not run with my fat belly until my weight is closer to 160 or below. Right now the weight is melting off just by going gonzo on the mountain bike. I'm getting good cardio by doing intervals and pushing big gears. So I'm thinking why risk doing damage to my tendons by running right now?

The cushioning material in running shoes hardens with age, no more than 2-3 years old at the most.

Ice massage is better. Freeze water in styrofoam cups and rub the tendons with that. 15-20 min. at a time Icy hot is really not long lasting enough and you don't want heat on inflamed tendons.

Calf stretch. Do these very gently, you're not looking for flexability right now, just a little extra circulation to the tendon area.

Lean into a wall, one leg farther back and straight. You should feel the stretch in the calf. Slowly bend the knee and the stretch will move to the Achilles. Repeat with other leg.

You may be one of the few but "mashing" big gears can damage the knees. You'll get just as good a cardio workout by "spinning" (90-110 rpm).

handcycle2005 08-22-2011 03:07 PM


Originally Posted by lastri (Post 54441)
I have a 10K in Oct 2, and I wanted to just finish strong. PR is not matter right now.
Another goal is to be able to bike for 20 miles before winter come. Right now I have a mountain bike on the pave trail. When I hit my goal, I would consider to get a road bike. I heard that road bike is much lighter, so you can go faster.
Mai

The weight of the bike is of little importance unless your area is fairly hilly.

Typical mtn. bikes weigh around 25-28 lbs. while road bikes run 19-22.

The difference in "road feel" is the road bike has narrow, light weight tires that are inflated to much higher pressures than a mtn. bike's.

VitoVino 08-22-2011 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by lastri (Post 54441)
I heard that road bike is much lighter, so you can go faster.
Mai


Yes, road bikes are much faster with the same amount of energy output. But it's for many reasons, not just they are lighter. The tires are upwards of 90 psi. inflation, whereas mountain bikes may be around 60 psi. So more inflation, less rolling resistance. Also the tires are thinner on a road bike. Again, less contact with pavement, less rolling resistance.

Also with a road bike, your position is more forward towards the front tire than on a mountain bike. The further back you sit on a bike, the easier it is to climb hills, so mountain bikes are made where your weight is more shifted towards the rear (so you can use your leg muscles more efficiently for climbing). But this hurts forward momentum.

Road bikes also have different gearing. Smaller gears mean greater speeds, but the tradeoff is that you have less torque (power) for climbing steep hills.

With road bikes, the stem is lower so when you lean forward on the handle bars, you are in a more prone position, whereas on a mountain bike the stem is longer and you sit more upright (the handlebars play into this as well). This affects not only forward momentum but also increases wind resistance when you're sitting more upright on a mountain bike.

I love talking bikes. Hopefully I didn't bore you. :D

VitoVino 08-22-2011 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by handcycle2005 (Post 54447)
The cushioning material in running shoes hardens with age, no more than 2-3 years old at the most.

Ice massage is better. Freeze water in styrofoam cups and rub the tendons with that. 15-20 min. at a time Icy hot is really not long lasting enough and you don't want heat on inflamed tendons.

Calf stretch. Do these very gently, you're not looking for flexability right now, just a little extra circulation to the tendon area.

Lean into a wall, one leg farther back and straight. You should feel the stretch in the calf. Slowly bend the knee and the stretch will move to the Achilles. Repeat with other leg.


Sounds like I need a new pair of shoes!

Thanks for the advice on the tendons! I'll follow it and stay away from running until I'm fully healed (no pun intended).

RunbikeSki 08-22-2011 05:31 PM

Day 1 - intervals
 
Hi all,
It looks like the thread is off to a great start. Thanks Handycycle for being resident training expert I'm sure your expertise will be very much appreciated over the next few months.

Mai, your goal of finishing strong is perfect! I have known people who nearly killed themselves to finish under a certain time and then never ran another race again - too bad :(.

Vito, run, bike, walk... whatever it takes to keep moving. And yeah, good shoes can make all the difference.

Amy, for me having a goal to work towards seems to be a really important motivator. It can be the difference between hitting the snooze 3 or 4 times and ignoring the planned morning run, and grudgingly getting out of bed on time, but being super happy I completed that planned run.

So today was 400 meter intervals with a 400 meter rest - 8 reps. The target was 8 min miles. When I got up I was (and still am) pretty sore from Sat. weight training but figured I'd get started and if it was too painful I would at least walk it out. To my surprise I got the work out done. And after the first rep, hit my target on the remaing 7 reps. :p

A lovely way to start the week!

lastri 08-22-2011 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 54442)
My mountain bike weighs just over 7 lbs., DH's mountain bike is even lighter. There are very light road bikes, but the lighter they are the more they cost. What kind of bike do you ride?

My husband bought me this bike a few years back. It's a Trek. I don't think it costs much. It's very heavy with the mountain bike tires. It feels a lot lighter when he changed the tires since I never go on the dirt trail. But still quite heavy I think.
Mai

dear_abby 08-22-2011 06:16 PM

Thanks for getting this started Pam, it's a great idea!

My goal is to run an organized 5K - I want to run the whole way, and finish, as it will be my first, doing it is the big goal.

It looks like the weekend I was planning I'll now have to be out of town, so I'll find another.

I'd value people asking "have you registered yet?" "When is it scheduled", and "how is the training coming?".

Thanks!

Abby

lastri 08-22-2011 06:21 PM

Vito Vino, after reading your post I am excited to get a new bike. I use to ride in Saigon, Vietnam when I was 12-22 to go to school and latter commute to work. So I am quite familiar with bike. But I hardly ride bike with gear, and I still try to figure out what gear would be best to clime hill, or what would be best for flat, down hill... If you can fill me in with that information would be great.
I think I will ride again tomorrow for 45 minutes.
Mai

lastri 08-22-2011 06:24 PM

Awesome Pam. What a great 1st day of training.

lastri 08-22-2011 06:39 PM

Just have a quick question.
Do you warm up before a run? And what kind of warm up, tips you can share?

I usually start slow like a jog then speed up a bit. Half way in, I stretch for a couple minutes and then continues.
mai

almeeker 08-22-2011 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by lastri (Post 54484)
Awesome Pam. What a great 1st day of training.

Ditto.

almeeker 08-22-2011 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by lastri (Post 54480)
My husband bought me this bike a few years back. It's a Trek. I don't think it costs much. It's very heavy with the mountain bike tires. It feels a lot lighter when he changed the tires since I never go on the dirt trail. But still quite heavy I think.
Mai

My bike is also a Trek, I bought it on clearance years ago and even then it wasn't cheap. Back in the day the big thing was to have a really light bike, so mine weighs about 1/3 what the newer models do. My bike however does not have any of those "shock" absorbing features. I doubt the light weight makes me any faster, but it sure is easy to hang up in the shed or put on the bike rack on top of the car. Agreed the mountain bike tires are much heavier than the road tires. But when we take the bikes out we usually hit trails rather than roads.

handcycle2005 08-22-2011 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by lastri (Post 54485)
Just have a quick question.
Do you warm up before a run? And what kind of warm up, tips you can share?

I usually start slow like a jog then speed up a bit. Half way in, I stretch for a couple minutes and then continues.
mai

For an ordinary training run, no specific warmup is needed. Do as you're doing, just start a bit slower and pick it up when you feel ready.

Stretch after your run and make it a complete routine. Recent studies have shown that stretching temporarily weakens muscles so it's best done after a workout.

Before a race or hard, anaerobic workout:jog 10-15 min with an increase in speed over the last few minutes. Do several strideouts(controlled sprints, don't strain) 4-6 of appx 100yds. Finish your warmup as close to the start as possible. Stay loose on the line, jog in place every few minutes and a short sprint in place if needed.

Experiment with your warmup, everyone is a bit different and no one routine is optimal for all.

RunbikeSki 08-22-2011 07:09 PM

I used to never really warm up, I'd just start out a little slower and then pick up the pace.

These days, I usually start with a walk. At my age I seem to wake up creaky and a bit achey no matter what I did the day before, so the walk help get everything back in working order. After about a quarter mile I'll start to jog, and then it depends on what the run's objective is from there.

I do a bit of stretching afterwards, but I am not religious about it. I do, however, do yoga 2 or 3 times a week, independently of the runs.

lastri 08-23-2011 12:50 AM

Thanks guys, I will do as I already did. But I definitely add a stretch cool down at the end.
I usually don't do it. But I heard a few minutes cool down go a long way.

Pam, I know yoga is good for muscles stretching. But I don't do that very often. Stretch after run would be benefit.

Mai

sw07 08-23-2011 05:11 PM

I'll usually do a light pre-run stretch, and then I'll start off slow till things start loosening up then get into a decent stride depending on how long I intend on running for. I'll definitely do a cool down stretch routine when done.

I've got a 5k race this Saturday so I'm taking it easy all week.

dear_abby 08-24-2011 05:55 PM

Wrong date AARGH
 
So, September 11th I have a church meeting which I really should attend (a committee I'm pushy on), and it's the opening day of our church year, which is a big deal, but it's the day of the Ovarian Cancer 5K - a good friend got a serious diagnosis with that two years ago, and thankfully, responded well to treatment.

She's doing this event, and I contributed to her run, but would love to make it my first 5K too. However, I think I'll say "there's another weekend for that..."

Abby

RunbikeSki 08-24-2011 06:20 PM

Bummer, Abby. Keep looking, the fall is usually jam pack with races.

almeeker 08-24-2011 06:38 PM

My oldest DD picked up a flier for a 5K on September 10th, and waved it at me asking if she could do that for her birthday :eek::eek::eek: (so not like her). We actually have been invited to a party out of town that day, but maybe we can find a different one.

cjohnson728 08-24-2011 07:11 PM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 54751)
My oldest DD picked up a flier for a 5K on September 10th, and waved it at me asking if she could do that for her birthday :eek::eek::eek: (so not like her). We actually have been invited to a party out of town that day, but maybe we can find a different one.

Good ones for families are the ones labeled "run/walk"...generally more relaxed and you don't have really serious runners complaining about kids being "in the way."

If anyone wants to go on their own, the cystic fibrosis foundation's "Outrun CF" is October 1...it is a virtual run and you register for a fee but do it on your own time, at your own place, and for however long you want. Everyone does it on the same day across the US. It takes away the crowd's energy but it does go for a good cause and you get a cool shirt. I did 5K for the one in the spring and plan on doing this one as well; I have a relative with CF.

handcycle2005 08-24-2011 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by cjohnson728 (Post 54755)
Good ones for families are the ones labeled "run/walk"...generally more relaxed and you don't have really serious runners complaining about kids being "in the way."

Virtually every race not only allows walkers and kids but welcomes them.

The reason that serious runners complain is that people let their children line up at the front.
The faster runners are often going for prizes for a high placing and don't need an obstacle course not to mention the danger to the kids.
Walkers should line up at the back, runners should line up in the pack about where they estimate they will finish e.g. if you usually finish in the middle, line up in the middle.

almeeker 08-24-2011 07:31 PM

Found a race, DD want's to do the 5K at the Detroit Zoo. It's $25/person, so I told her she can maybe invite 1-2 friends, but maybe we'll make it a family thing and do her party another day.

cjohnson728 08-24-2011 08:02 PM


Originally Posted by handcycle2005 (Post 54757)
Virtually every race not only allows walkers and kids but welcomes them.

The reason that serious runners complain is that people let their children line up at the front.
The faster runners are often going for prizes for a high placing and don't need an obstacle course not to mention the danger to the kids.
Walkers should line up at the back, runners should line up in the pack about where they estimate they will finish e.g. if you usually finish in the middle, line up in the middle.


True, but some races are better than others in terms of the mix of folks they draw. For example, where I am, a number of racers are qualifiers for bigger ones that draw world class runners. Those aren't the best options for families with kids who are new to the process.

Almeeker, the zoo race sounds fun. I hope y'all enjoy it! Doesn't it make you feel good that she's thinking healthy lifestyle???!!!

RunbikeSki 08-25-2011 02:26 AM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 54759)
Found a race, DD want's to do the 5K at the Detroit Zoo. It's $25/person, so I told her she can maybe invite 1-2 friends, but maybe we'll make it a family thing and do her party another day.


That sounds like a ball. Check to see if they will do a group discount - some races will, but you may need to contact the organizer directly.

RunbikeSki 08-26-2011 02:51 PM

Tempo run this morning
 
1 mile warm up, 3 miles at "comfortable hard", 1 mile cool down.

The objective of a tempo run is to "improve endurance by raising lactate threshold". That is getting the muscles to work harder and longer before they start to burn.

uggg it is hot already at 6:30... but off we go!

RunbikeSki 08-26-2011 05:11 PM

Well, we got the "hard" part of the tempo run, but I wouldn't say that it was ever "comfortable"

Good luck all you east coasters with Irene bearing down on you. Stay safe and don't do like those idiots in florida who walked out on a jetty to watch the big waves roll in :confused:. Darwin award winners???

lastri 08-26-2011 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by RunbikeSki (Post 54962)
1 mile warm up, 3 miles at "comfortable hard", 1 mile cool down.

The objective of a tempo run is to "improve endurance by raising lactate threshold". That is getting the muscles to work harder and longer before they start to burn.

uggg it is hot already at 6:30... but off we go!

Wow. that is great.

lastri 08-26-2011 05:21 PM

I found this training plan for novice and it seem very easy. I have 7 weeks to train for my 10 K. And today I run 2 miles + weight. 2 miles out of the way.
Tomorrow will cross training. I plan to walk and play tennis.

Is this storm really bad? People are buying like crazy at the stores. I wonder if I should too.
Mai

dear_abby 08-26-2011 05:44 PM

Off subject - Irene
 

Originally Posted by lastri (Post 54993)
Is this storm really bad? People are buying like crazy at the stores. I wonder if I should too.
Mai

I posted a response on "off topic"

Abby

handcycle2005 08-26-2011 06:01 PM


Originally Posted by RunbikeSki (Post 54990)
Well, we got the "hard" part of the tempo run, but I wouldn't say that it was ever "comfortable"

Good luck all you east coasters with Irene bearing down on you. Stay safe and don't do like those idiots in florida who walked out on a jetty to watch the big waves roll in :confused:. Darwin award winners???

Tempo should not be comfortable, more just over the border of comfortable/uncomfortable so you did it right.

You might want to cut the tempo back to 20-25 min. Your planned 10K pace is very close to your tempo pace and a 3 mile run is a bit long.

sw07 08-27-2011 09:35 PM

Well, I ran my race this morning and it was brutal. It was an incredibly fast field, there were at least 5 running clubs that had entered and they all hauled donkey:mad:
I feel I finished decent, I ran a 22:13 / 7:10 pace and finished 13th of 34 in my age div (40-44) and came in 105 / 1024 overall- kinda sucked not being in the top 10, but oh well, next time:D

I also signed up for 3 more 5k's, I got one next weekend (9/3), the following weekend (9/11) and I also tried to get in on some early bird pricing for a big run on 10/3. There's also another 5k on 9/17 that I still need to register for- it's an afternoon race, those are kinda weird for me, so I'm still on the fence with that one.

I still want to break the sub 22:00 barrier, looks like I've got some training ahead of me...

handcycle2005 08-27-2011 10:02 PM

sw07, how long have you been running and what is a typical week you're currently doing?

Getting under 20:00 will require a good amount of interval training as the 5K is a very anaerobic event.

You still might need higher mileage as your performance above the 5K drops off.
This calculator predicts a 36:37/5 mile and a 45:55/10K based on your 5K.


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