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wildbeanerz 02-01-2012 03:13 PM

WW question - bananas
 
I have never tried WW and I don't want to knock their program as I am sure that it has helped many people to lose weight. I just have a question in regards to something I was told yesterday at work.

I was offered a banana and politely refused since I had one with my breakfast. The lady said but they are good for you. I replied that they have too many carbs to eat too many of. She then told me that they are 0 points on WW and she can eat as many as she wants. :confused: How does that work?

Kathy13118 02-01-2012 03:40 PM

In WW, there isn't a food that is so unlimited, you can eat 200 of them in a day (for example)! However, the new - and I think welcome and wonderful - revision to the plan is that most fruits and vegetables are zero points. What this does is all you to eat what you want (even cake, as long as you're willing to acknowledge those points and count them honestly) but places emphasis on whole, natural foods.

Yesterday, I ate most of a bag of green beans. What cost me points weren't the green beans. It was the butter-olive oil blend I used to season them. 3/4 cup green beans is just 20 calories. The entire large bag had 11 servings. One serving is 5 grams of carbohydrates. It was the tbsp of fat that is around 100 calories that was 5 times more caloric than the serving of green beans, which also had 3 grams of fiber! WW basically reflects this in its plan. You can eat the more caloric item but it will 'cost you' points from a daily budget that you have. It always reminds me of budgeting and money.

mecompco 02-01-2012 03:55 PM

Well, I guess that begs the question, just how many pieces of fruit would (could) one pound down on a daily basis? I agree that if you eat 15 or 20 bananas a day, you're unlikely to lose weight (at ~120 cals each). Other fruit might not be as bad--lots of fiber in an apple or orange for instance and if you ate too many apples, well, I think you'd regret it.

Any eating plan can be abused and considering fruit "0" is, I think, not going to be productive if taken beyond the realm of reasonableness (and believe me, I've been there!).

Regards,
Michael

PS I LOVE ripe bananas and eat one most every day--a great source of potassium and tasty to boot.

Rubystars 02-01-2012 03:58 PM

I think it's cruel for Weight Watchers to set that woman up for disappointment. Bananas are usually at least 100 calories each. If it's a big banana it could be more like 120. All she has to do is eat 4 bananas and she'll be eating about one third to one fourth her daily calories for "zero" points, then if she spends all her points for the day on top of that, then she'll wonder why she's not losing weight, because she was following the diet! I wonder if this is why people come away with the false impression that diets don't work.

VitoVino 02-01-2012 04:22 PM


Originally Posted by wildbeanerz (Post 71185)
She then told me that they are 0 points on WW and she can eat as many as she wants. :confused: How does that work?


It's called "Voodoo Dieting"

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/...Smileys/xd.gif

VitoVino 02-01-2012 04:26 PM

But to be serious here, and only for a moment, WW has adopted this new policy of "zero calories" for many fruits and vegetable to encourage people to be eating these things. Of course it's a "gimmick". And my dear friend who has done WW, who actually has a brain, decided NOT to count these whole foods as "zero" but to award points to them in her daily calorie count.

wildbeanerz 02-01-2012 04:26 PM


Originally Posted by Rubystars (Post 71197)
I think it's cruel for Weight Watchers to set that woman up for disappointment. Bananas are usually at least 100 calories each. If it's a big banana it could be more like 120. All she has to do is eat 4 bananas and she'll be eating about one third to one fourth her daily calories for "zero" points, then if she spends all her points for the day on top of that, then she'll wonder why she's not losing weight, because she was following the diet! I wonder if this is why people come away with the false impression that diets don't work.


This is what I was getting at but wasn't sure how to put it delicately without offending. I think she is being mislead. No matter how many 'points' something is worth it still has calories and they still add up.

I truly love good bananas and have one every morning with my greek yogurt for breakfast.

Between about 6 people yesterday they ate 3 full bunches of bananas though and I know that can't be of benefit to anyone since about 4 of the are on WW. Honestly they started last year this time and I don't see any real changes in any of them and they aren't really large ladies so if they lost any amount it should show.

Kathy13118 02-02-2012 02:37 PM

There have always been zero points (or things you could eat without worrying about them) in WW. Even from the very beginning of WW, when the person checked off boxes for dairy, bread, etc., there were foods you could eat freely and not have to count.

I can see how the reaction could be: well, you can overeat those free things and gain weight! The difference is that, in those early days of WW, the 'free foods' were less likely to be overeaten. Stuff like celery, asparagus, etc.

With the new points plus plan, WW makes almost all the fruits and vegetables 'free' but I do think they are more tempting. WW leaders do say that they you can't eat twenty bananas and call that zero points. I think you can eat something like three bananas and not count them.

All of this is to encourage you to eat whole natural foods - because a lot of what people eat is fatty, dense with calories, or prepared. When you start counting what you eat, you immediately see that anything that fits that description is going to cost you - in my opinion, they cost maybe one or two more points than the same amount would have cost you in the past! However, if you really want some cake, some fried chicken, some caesar salad, by all means, do - just realize, as you count the points and see how much you have to 'spend,' that it's going to impact your 'budget.'

This is the essence of WW. When you manage it successfully, it's unlike what you were eating before. Because it's a daily habit with accountability, it's more likely to persist as a habit.

almeeker 02-02-2012 02:52 PM

I've done WW a few times and it never worked, because ultimately it was way too easy to cheat, and I'm a smart fat chick so I could work it any way I wanted to and technically still be on plan. Secondly WW collects like $50/month for the meetings and makes a tidy profit on their food products, so they are not really interested in you reaching goal and getting off their plan. So although I think it is possible to lose weight on WW, they have no financial interest in getting their dieters down to goal and into maintenance. It's a conflict of interest for them. IMO this is the fly in the ointment of the entire dieting industry.

I'm with you April, the only friends I've seen that have lost a lot of weight and kept it off are the ones that have done what you and I are doing, changing our lives a step at a time, tracking calories and making a huge effort to get a workout in almost every day. The friends I see doing WW, South Beach, Slim Fast, MWLC, and HCL drops are all going to lose 10-15lbs and then quit and be heavier by this time next year. But it's their choice, I wouldn't argue with her, just lead by example.

wildbeanerz 02-02-2012 03:00 PM

Thanks for the input! I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on something. Cuz I mean, heck, if I can eat like 5 bananas a day and not have to count their calories I wanted to know about that! :) IMO points or not, the calories still add up. And if you ate more calories than you burned you will not lose the weight.

I don't argue with people. I tell them my side or my reason why I'm doing what I am and let them ask more if they want to know. Yeah, my loss has been reasonably slow compared to some other people but it is working for me. I haven't had a serious rebound an am still losing. Slow and steady. I have times where I get stuck but I figure if I maintain through them that is success as well. And I am hoping that as I exercise and build muscle that I am tightening my body so as not to have excessive skin when I get to where I want to be.

Kathy13118 02-02-2012 05:15 PM

'So although I think it is possible to lose weight on WW, they have no financial interest in getting their dieters down to goal and into maintenance. It's a conflict of interest for them. IMO this is the fly in the ointment of the entire dieting industry.'

I think the opposite of this is true. WW can't survive on people trickling in to try out the program. They survive on word of mouth and the presence of weight loss winners in the group meetings. If WW told you that it was important to show up for meetings (and they do stress that all the time!) and you went to meetings and never saw weight losses occurring in the members who follow the plan, you'd be too discouraged to continue.

What's the ever present carrot (as in the carrot and the stick) is reaching your goal and maintaining long enough to be a lifetime member. I have a friend who's dream is exactly that - she wants that lifetime membership. She has friends who have made that and even a friend who is a lifetime member and now a WW leader!

Every WW meeting, the leader congratulates people on whatever goal they achieved that week, whether it is related to weight loss or not. It may seem childish to get a star for gaining weight that week but resisting overeating at a company party, but that's what gets rewarded. The emphasis is on one step at a time, small changes adding up to big changes over time.

Every WW meeting theme (some goal to tackle or some attitude to change about food and how it leads to eating too many calories) is shared at every WW meeting across the country. If they talk about changing behavior - for example, eating more slowly to enjoy the taste of your food more - then that same topic is being discussed at all the other meetings that week. There's a small pamphlet that's given to every member who attends the meeting, about that topic.

There's nothing radical there. All the steps are small and manageable for most people. And if not manageable for you, then the meeting is the place that is discussed. Or the leader can discuss it with you right after the meeting, and offer suggestions and ask pertinent questions. It's not rocket science. They do everything they possibly can, and if you still need reinforcement, there's an online website for members. Complete with every kind of meal planning, recipe, and support forums.

I'm a dieter who knows how to work loopholes in a diet.I still haven't figured out how to beat the math of just adding up what you eat and owning up to it. By the way, Fitday does the same thing when it reports your running deficit (your goal calories for the day, how many calories you've eaten and what you have left)! Which is great.

frenchhen3 02-24-2012 10:24 PM


Originally Posted by wildbeanerz (Post 71364)
Thanks for the input! I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on something. Cuz I mean, heck, if I can eat like 5 bananas a day and not have to count their calories I wanted to know about that! :) IMO points or not, the calories still add up. And if you ate more calories than you burned you will not lose the weight.

I don't argue with people. I tell them my side or my reason why I'm doing what I am and let them ask more if they want to know. Yeah, my loss has been reasonably slow compared to some other people but it is working for me. I haven't had a serious rebound an am still losing. Slow and steady. I have times where I get stuck but I figure if I maintain through them that is success as well. And I am hoping that as I exercise and build muscle that I am tightening my body so as not to have excessive skin when I get to where I want to be.

And that is why I like reading your posts!

Myschll 02-24-2012 11:53 PM

I don't think it does work. I think it's a flaw in the points plus diet. I can't lose weight on WW. I use the Dukan Diet which is the diet that Princess Kate and her mother did before the Royal Wedding. It's great, I lose weight and I don't crave junk.

jessicaonadiet 02-25-2012 01:06 PM

I have done WW several times and I never lose weight on it. I was told that the best thing is exercise so went down that route. Now I do Curves...that way I have freedom to eat most things (within reason!!) and also tone up!

jessicaonadiet 02-25-2012 01:08 PM

p.s - the site I found which helped me find my best diet was Rank My Diet Suprisingly it got it spot on! Free so worth a shot!

VitoVino 02-25-2012 01:12 PM

I've lost 40 pounds using FitDay and am about 5 pounds over what I weighed in high school. Using FitDay the BEST "DIET" out there. :cool:

Kathy13118 02-26-2012 05:05 PM

Using Fitday helps you make better choices. There's no contradiction with WW there!

tfitz100 05-07-2018 10:10 PM


Originally Posted by Rubystars (Post 71197)
I think it's cruel for Weight Watchers to set that woman up for disappointment. Bananas are usually at least 100 calories each. If it's a big banana it could be more like 120. All she has to do is eat 4 bananas and she'll be eating about one third to one fourth her daily calories for "zero" points, then if she spends all her points for the day on top of that, then she'll wonder why she's not losing weight, because she was following the diet! I wonder if this is why people come away with the false impression that diets don't work.

I don't think Weight Watchers is really setting her up for disappointment--if she eats 10 bananas a day and doesn't lost the weight she sets out to lose, she has to look at her diet and why she would believe something like that--these things do call for some common sense!

The WW new system is designed to be less "hassle" when used within reason. Apples for instance are zero points, but you can't eat 20 a day and if you think you can, you're not keeping within the spirit and intent of why it's zero points.

Being zero points means not having to remember to track it (i.e. certain fruits, vegetables, certain fish, etc.) because these things are negligible when stacked up against what really makes people gain weight. As another poster said, it's a focus on a healthy lifestyle and encouragement to focus on the foods that shift the body to lose weight.

I know people in the program that don't track foods, they just use the "Zero Points" food list and they tick off 2lbs/week with mild exercise (walking, lifting weights, etc.) in almost a perfectly predictable cadence. It's almost a mindless program at this point (which makes it very good as all of the macro nutrients have already been collapsed down into a single integer).

I *get* the initial reaction people have though...If you take it at face value only and just read the text, then one can say "well I can eat 30 pieces of fruit a day because that's what it says on the paper". That's just not how it's supposed to work. I don't think most people think that to be honest.


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