SailorDoom

Hey m330, thanks for the response. A lot of what you've said here echoes my own thoughts and experiences. Over the past couple of years I've added a lot of variety to my diet, which has subsequently resulted in increased protein intake overall as well as a slight decrease in carbs and processed foods. Read: broke college student transitioning to young professional/no kids. This has by no means been a magic bullet or revelation, nor has it caused significant weight loss/fitness gains. I will say however, that a few modest changes have resulted in somewhat increased fitness and more lasting satiation after meals for me personally.

In regards to your italicized note: contrary to what you feared, I thought your response was thoughtful, even-handed and based on personal experience (a good thing, in my opinion). But it kind of got me thinking…

As a side note (in no way directed toward you specifically m330), I think I'm somewhat put off by the emotionally charged defense some people have of these high protein or high fat plans (especially Atkins and Paleo/Primal) and how the subject almost inevitably gets wrapped up into political and social discourse. Of course this happens with any “non-standard” diet/lifestyle (a vegan diet, for example), but I think I’m personally just more aware of it with the Paleo/Primal folks right now. It’s really a shame, because I think at the heart of it I agree with many of the core values of that lifestyle and I think the science behind it is valuable. I have a few Primal Blueprinters in my life and they become so emotional and vehemently defensive of their diet choices when confronted (even to the mildest extent) that it makes the diet sound like a cult or fad and overshadows the legitimate current scientific advances some of these plans are based on. Reading the article and some of the responses to it got me thinking…that stance makes me resistant to information that challenges conventional wisdom -- NOT simply because it goes against the grain, but because the attitude behind it is so aggressive. I know there will always be a few people who want to rock the boat or challenge the status quo in a more forceful way, but I think it’s important to separate political stances and personal feelings from scientific pursuits that may lead to a better understanding of how we humans work. Ultimately I feel we will only benefit from this information and the case is by no means closed! Onward and upward!


I alos apologize to the OP if this is hijacking the thread – I’m interested in continuing to hear what others have to say about virginnia’s original subject of low carb eating. I genuinely find it intriguing to hear how different diet plans work so differently for each of us! Very inspiring!

virginnia

No, im delighted as all the points you have raised are ones that i have been investigating. Like you, upping my fat intake felt like the worst type of heresy, how could i be feeling so well and losing weight by having cream when i wanted it and cooking with butter...
You both voiced your concerns re high fat with high carbs, that combination worries me and i stay well away from it. The more i research the lonelier i become as the resistence to anything but low fat eating is enormous here, writing via the laptop is the only way i can communicate as ive not found anyone else i can discuss my ideas with.
The more i research how carbohydrates work the more i understand why i have always had so much difficulty maintaining an even weight, basically they go straight to "store as fat" in my genetic code.
I am familiar with Fat Head, the movie...

virginnia

And yes, Sailordoom.. talking diets is like politics or religion with some folk. My brother is utterly stuck on low fat eating (and it isnt working), looks at me askance if i dare to mention a high fat intake with low carbohyrate...i can just about hear him thinking, there she goes again, what a nut.

m330

Good discussion, SailorDoom.

And I know exactly what you mean about the zealotry that can permeate these communities. Once emotion is brought into it, credibility can suffer. I don't know any paleo or primal adherents personally, I had to discover this through the internet (though I do know lots of Atkins proponents, and always poo-pooed the idea.) So even though I haven't been personally confronted with it, I have seen some of that on the web, and can understand it. In my case, I'll share if asked, but I'm not much of a proselytizer. On the internet, though, in forums like this, I've been much more talkative, as I'm still filtering ideas and formulating my thoughts based on research, discussions, and recently, personal results.

The area where I was really confronted with what you describe was Crossfit. I love the idea behind it, and approaching my late 30s, the idea of functional fitness (and making it fun) is very appealing to me (after both shoulders and two surgeries on my left wrist, the standard iron-pumping & cardio regimented approach is much less attractive)... but I totally got that cult-like reaction when I looked into Crossfit and met some of the folks. I understand the experience can be vastly different from one location to another, but the local one was just too much. Figure I'll check it out some other time down the road and reassess and reevaluate then.

m330

Hi virginnia,

As far as upping the fat intake, after a few days of that now... wow, what a difference. It still feels so wrong to me, but it seems like it makes *all* the difference as to hunger. The past two days, I've actually been really satisfied with one large meal a day (huge breakfast yesterday, big lunch today), and then a few snacks or a second smaller meal--I'm eager to see if this continues days or weeks down the road. I'm so used to being hungry all the time... I was healthy and lean for many years following the grazing approach, eating every few hours (for me, the typical three meals, but broken up with "snack meals" consisting of a yogurt cup, some cottage cheese, fruit, pretzels, or in the evenings, my biggest vice: a bowl of cereal.) Still, it just seemed I was always hungry to some degree. So far, the increased fat intake isn't really addressing my cravings... I still want bread and sweets, but it really seems to be helping with the hunger.

I think there's still a good bit of resistance to the low-carb approach here in the states too, although maybe not as bad as it sounds for you in NZ. Here the bias seems to be (of course) from the media and medical community, and maybe your average health-conscious person, but Atkins got enough of a hold that I'd bet everyone at least knows people who are doing/have done Atkins, so in that "guy on the street" respect, it's likely not as bad as you describe. Heck, my sister-in-law has been doing Atkins (some on, some off, but it's her most common mode), and I was "that guy", warning against it as anything other than a temporary or transitionary phase. Never a jerk about it, and never a source of contention, but on several occasions when my brother and I would talk, he was aware of my concern for her. Now, after how many years, I'm the one reevaluating everything...

And I can't wait to watch the movie... the Amazon reviews made it sound terrific. Once I watch it, I hope it'll be worth sharing with my folks. If it's as funny and entertaining as I expect, maybe it will get through to them: I doubt they'd ever go low-carb, but good Lord, they need to eat healthier. Mom seems to subsist on a diet of sugar and cheese--nothing wholesome, just processed foods, sweets, popsicles, processed cheese all over the place... and she's really packed weight on the last 10yrs. Meanwhile, dad has progressed off of glucophage and is now taking daily injections to control his blood sugar, but he's still 100lbs overweight, and has to drink a full 2liter of Coke every day! Neither sees any connection whatsoever between what they put in their mouths and their health. It's heartbreaking, knowing they're slowly killing themselves.

virginnia

I get really annoyed that I gain weight so easily and wonder why I just don't let it all go and eat what and when I like. Yet if I do I end up feeling so uncomfortable and ugly I can barely live with myself.. also it's not as if I've ever been a junk food eater, have always eaten well but crave bread..my downfall and not even white bread, good bread, heavy and dark. I barely go there now but still I crave it. Eating fat and protein and vegetables has helped with the hunger. On a low fat diet I am miserable, always hungry and with headaches.
I am feeling quite emotionally deprived at present, no cigarettes and no bread, sugar, potatoes or rice yet I am way better off and this deprived feeling will pass, have been here before. My weight is now about 180lbs and going down, going for 60kilos or about 136lbs and have given myself a year to do it.
Interesting reading on the cigarette quitline I am part of here as I'm only about 4 months clear of nicotine- everyone is moaning about putting on many pounds...
Must be hard for you to watch your parents eating themselves to death. What is it that makes you so interested in your health?