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Old 12-28-2010, 06:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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To me, being naturally thin means my body controls how much and when I eat through the mechanism of my appetite. I like what eahearn said best, it's just food, it's not something to feel bad or good about oneself over. If I exercise more, I'm naturally hungrier and I just eat until I'm satisfied. Likewise, I'm interested in eating healthy food because I just feel better.

A body in famine (and famine is either quality of food or quantity of food) is highly sensitized to food in the enviornment. When a body is well nourished, food is just food. Caloric restriction causes the body to change biochemically, over time, to favor storage of fat. Poor quality eating, reckless eating, late eating all contribute to famine.

It's Christmas, I eat a little more chocolate but no big deal. I'm not in famine and my body just isn't that interested in "pigging out" on candy. I don't binge like I used to when I was "dieting" and trying to get to a smaller weight.

I was slender before, as a child, had a period of years of dieting and trying to control it artifically, and now I'm slender again and I eat when I'm hungry and food doesn't "call" to me all the time. My appetite is my friend, not my enemy. I'm not up in the middle of the night, laying in bed, talking to myself about not getting up to eat. Exercise is a joy, not a "have to burn calories" sort of thing.
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noelminneci View Post

A body in famine (and famine is either quality of food or quantity of food) is highly sensitized to food in the enviornment. When a body is well nourished, food is just food. Caloric restriction causes the body to change biochemically, over time, to favor storage of fat. Poor quality eating, reckless eating, late eating all contribute to famine.
That seems very anecdotal to me. By the rules of human biology the body stores calories during moments of calorie surplus. When you reach a point of having a caloric deficit the body uses stored energy to meet your energy needs. There is really no need to complicate this principle.

For one thing when I was in the period of my rapid weight loss I regularly ate 2-3 meals long after most people would be going to bed. I would eat before bed without caring. It had no effect on my weight loss. Its calories in calories out. Not when you eat.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Noel, I think what you mean by late eating is eating past the time when you are initially hungry; is that true? At least that's how I understood it from the book you recommended: How to Become Naturally Thin by Eating More, by Jean Antonello, which is where the title of the thread came from. It doesn't mean being born thin and staying that way magically (or because we are blessed with good genetics). It means being thin in a more natural way without restrictive and unrealistic diets. That's what the person who posted about her sister in law's diet meant too, I think. Eating natural food in a natural way.

I read the book and while I think it is restrictive itself in some ways, dividing foods into categories (real, borderline and pleasure) and does indeed give a food list at the end, I am going to try the approach it offers. I already do some of it. I have to eat when I'm hungry or I get sick. But I will stop weighing counting measuring every morsel and "punishing" myself for eating too much when I keep working so hard to restrict myself and "watch" myself. In other words, I'm going to stop obsessing about what I eat and just eat, the best foods I can. But limiting myself to chocolate once a month? Not gonna happen. Still you did say you have a little bit of dark chocolate fairly often, if not every day. I can live with that (and I don't need chocolate every day, just the thought that I can have things I want without suffering the backlash that inevitably follows when I put myself on yet another unmanageable plan.) And that's what I want: a diet (yes I used the d word) I can live with, in other words, a diet that isn't a DIET, just a healthy natural way of eating. I think we can all agree that whatever way you eat, you need to have something you can live with or any weight loss is going to be temporary, no? And what a simple yet revolutionary idea: that we can trust ourselves to feed ourselves properly and exercise for the pure enjoyment of it.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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As the mother of 3 daughters I can contribute some things to this conversation. Our oldest and our youngest take after me, they love carbs and both of them are a little on the chunky side, and neither of them are prone to energetic outbursts. Don't get me wrong they are energetic, just not in sudden outbursts. Our middle child is fed the same foods as the other two but she is quite thin. So I've been trying to study her without seeming to focus on her size. Anyway what I can say is that our middle DD does a lot of things that you are supposed to do in order to lose weight, she has short bursts of extreme energy, where she hops or climbs or jumps up and bounces around and/or claps her hands with insane intensity, she does this several times a day. I've come to think of those moments as her subconsciencious HIIT workout. She also skips breakfast most days, or will only eat 3-4 bites of it, so as a mother I focus on making sure her breakfast is nutritious, quality-yes, quantity-never. The oldest and youngest like breakfast and usually help themselves, most of the time they make good choices but not always (especially our youngest). Also the middle child is something of a hoarder. If we give all the kids some sort of snack or treat, she will be the one to finish hers last and torment the other two with it as long as possible, so much so that she will actually get bored with it and forget to eat it all together. Example: Halloween candy, the oldest and youngest finished theirs more than a month ago, the middle child ate maybe a 1/3 of hers and then proceeded to torment her sisters with the 3 full sized candy bars she had, then forgot about it completely and I ended up tossing about 1/2 of it just before Christmas. All of our 3 DD's eat pretty healthy, but the middle child gravitates toward lower calorie, low fat, more than the other two. For example it's not uncommon for her to ask for a side of salad at dinner time, whereas the other two want rolls with butter and corn.

So when we talk about "naturally thin" I think it does occur, but it's more about a person's natural inclination to exercise and diet as it is about having a fast metabolism. I can tell you that my metabolism is much different at 150 than it was at 244. I have a ton of energy, but now when I'm hungry I need to eat but I can also control myself (most of the time), before when I was hungry I could hold off longer, but had much less control when I did get to eat.
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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What a great set of observations and analysis, Almeeker.
Thank you for sharing it with us.
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Hey no problem. It's been pretty eye opening for me to live with and study a skinny kid. I've been trying to come up with ways to give myself short bursts of energy...

Meanwhile I've also been sort of studying my DH's sisters (complete opposite ends of the scale) and I'm convinced that the larger of the two eats a healthier diet and the smaller one lives on veggy dogs and junk food. However the smaller one also runs marathons and such, so there you go.
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almeeker View Post
As the mother of 3 daughters I can contribute some things to this conversation. Our oldest and our youngest take after me, they love carbs and both of them are a little on the chunky side, and neither of them are prone to energetic outbursts. Don't get me wrong they are energetic, just not in sudden outbursts. Our middle child is fed the same foods as the other two but she is quite thin. So I've been trying to study her without seeming to focus on her size. Anyway what I can say is that our middle DD does a lot of things that you are supposed to do in order to lose weight, she has short bursts of extreme energy, where she hops or climbs or jumps up and bounces around and/or claps her hands with insane intensity, she does this several times a day. I've come to think of those moments as her subconsciencious HIIT workout. She also skips breakfast most days, or will only eat 3-4 bites of it, so as a mother I focus on making sure her breakfast is nutritious, quality-yes, quantity-never. The oldest and youngest like breakfast and usually help themselves, most of the time they make good choices but not always (especially our youngest). Also the middle child is something of a hoarder. If we give all the kids some sort of snack or treat, she will be the one to finish hers last and torment the other two with it as long as possible, so much so that she will actually get bored with it and forget to eat it all together. Example: Halloween candy, the oldest and youngest finished theirs more than a month ago, the middle child ate maybe a 1/3 of hers and then proceeded to torment her sisters with the 3 full sized candy bars she had, then forgot about it completely and I ended up tossing about 1/2 of it just before Christmas. All of our 3 DD's eat pretty healthy, but the middle child gravitates toward lower calorie, low fat, more than the other two. For example it's not uncommon for her to ask for a side of salad at dinner time, whereas the other two want rolls with butter and corn.
Wow, you just described me as a kid! I would drive my parents nuts because I would "save" all of my treats too! I remember when they found a bag of cotton candy on top of a shelf in my room. It was so old it looked like a piece of stained glass! And those huge Hershey Park candy bars? I would nibble a corner then forget I had it.

I was not skinny, I was tiny but muscular due to constantly climbing, jumping, etc. I was pretty hyper and had trouble sitting still for long. I also was not and am still not a breakfast eater.

I still "forget" about my stashes! I recently found a bunch of dark chocolate that I tossed because I had no idea how old it was! And I still have those hyper spurts but never thought of them as mini HITT workouts! Thanks!
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Canary, WOW, I think you've "got it!" Yes, I do eat dark chocolate every single day, I love it and I eat an ounce or so and it doesn't hurt me a bit. And the reason I don't eat late in the day is because I am so well fed during the day that I don't need to eat late. It's not a "rule," it's just the way it is.

I believe that every famine is followed by a feast and the science says we are programmed that way... and since I no longer go that route, I dont' binge and haven't for over 20 years. TWENTY YEARS! I can't abuse my body any more for the sake of being a weight that I think in my head "sounds good" or fits some formula. My goodness, of course thermodynamics works but I know for sure that if I undereat, I'm going to eventually overeat... my appetite will catch up. Survival mechanism, plain and simple.

I go with the idea of "habits not diets" and it works for me. I am a persistent person and I found the right solution for me and now I have peace with my body. I wish the same for everyone else. It's a good place to be. Noel
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:32 AM   #19 (permalink)
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One more thing... back in the day, I read a popular book by Bob Schwartz called Diet's Don't Work. It didn't resonate with me at that time but I remember one thing. He said he used to own a gym and often had clients come to him and ask how to GAIN weight. His answer: put them on a calorie restricted diet, then let them eat freely... and every single time without fail, the clients gained weight. Go figure!

I'd be willing to bet you there's hardly a single person on this forum who hasn't experienced more than one attempt to lose weight by the method of calories in/calories out restriction. If it worked so well, why is everybody still doing it? Why do we always say "this time" it will work and then when it doesn't, we blame ourselves... next time I'll get a trainer, next time I'll log every bite, next time I won't eat any carbs, next time I'll eat more protein, next time I'll pay a zillion bucks, etc. I know people who have dieted themselves UP to over 300 pounds and are still looking for the magic pill. These things all work for a little while, not forever.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noelminneci View Post
I'd be willing to bet you there's hardly a single person on this forum who hasn't experienced more than one attempt to lose weight by the method of calories in/calories out restriction. If it worked so well, why is everybody still doing it? Why do we always say "this time" it will work and then when it doesn't, we blame ourselves... next time I'll get a trainer, next time I'll log every bite, next time I won't eat any carbs, next time I'll eat more protein, next time I'll pay a zillion bucks, etc. I know people who have dieted themselves UP to over 300 pounds and are still looking for the magic pill. These things all work for a little while, not forever.
I've got to respectfully disagree with this--sorry.

Biology, physics, etc. tell us that in an organic organism:

If energy expended is greater than energy taken in, weight loss will occur. How can it not? Was Einstien wrong? Are we who want to lose weight some sort of perpetual motion machines?

Of course not. If we eat less calories than we burn, we WILL lose weight. Period. End of story.

Now, if we UNDERESTIMATE our calorie intake, and/or OVERESTIMATE our calorie burn, then weight loss may very well NOT occur and we may even gain weight. This is what derails weight loss.

I will say that every single time I have reduced my calorie intake and ACCURATELY tracked my food intake I have lost weight.

Now, keeping weight off w/o logging one's intake is an entirely different topic and one that I'm still working on.

Regards,
Michael
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