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Old 07-29-2010, 08:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zorba1331 View Post
Yeah...but you also believe that cows are fed grass and all that stuff...
Did I mention that my family owns a farm and raises beef cattle? So not only do I believe that cows are fed grass, I know it for a fact. And our farm is pretty much like all the other dairy and beef farms around here and yes they all feed their cows grass too. Why? Because grass just grows right up out of the ground and it's FREE for the price of munching. Corn isn't free, you either have to buy it, or you have to give over a portion of your real estate for 100 days and grow it.

I feel quite certain that zorb is intentionally inflammatory simply for the sake of advertising another website, which in my book is spam. So I'm done being insulted and explaining myself. I'm not going to read any more posts by zorb, and I urge the rest of you to do the same. Poof gone, no more zorb....
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Not only is the biochemistry of the human body very complex and not fully understood yet, there are just as many scientific studies that will argue that the human body has evolved since the time before agriculture became standard practice, and therefore whole grains are easily digested by those who have no allergies to them. Some people are lactose intolerant. That doesn't mean no one should drink milk, peanut allergies are also common and perhaps some cavemen died from peanuts. The point I'm making is just because a few doctors or scientists say that grains are bad for us, that is not conclusive enough for me to radically change my diet to totally eliminate a whole food group.

The average life span of the paleolithic human was 35 years so the reality is we don't even know what would happen to their bodies after 70 years of eating such a diet. I don't know a lot of people who suffer from diet-related illnesses before they turn 35 so is it reasonable to say that we should eat the way Paleolithic people ate thousands and thousands of years ago because they were healthier? We are all pretty damn healhty before 35 years of age.

Another point Zorba made which I find completely impossible to back up scientifically is that 66% of Americans are fat because they eat grains. That is simply his opinion. I believe so many of us are overweight because of portion size and the quality of the food we eat.

I agree with Almeeker, I believe Zorba is a troll and I am now done feeding the troll. If he didn't want to come across as a troll, he should have used a different tone and perhaps not presented his beliefs as fact, refuting everyone else's opinions and minimizing their successes.

Also, thank you Midwestj. I thought what you said was very well expressed and I appreciate it a lot.
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Last edited by mtlgirl; 07-29-2010 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Agree with almeeker and mtl. Just be glad we're not all stuck in the same room with the extremist individual who's trying to convert newcomers to his (icky!) way of eating! I can only imagine how much fun he is at parties...if he gets invited...
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:13 AM   #24 (permalink)
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To the OP take a look at my food logs, I'm on a pretty conventional healthy diet that you don't have to make a whole lot of change to achieve. Just start by eating healthy conscience choices and recording your intake.

I've lost 9 pounds in 23 days, and lost inches too. I do about a 50% carb 30% prot and 20% fat ratio.

To you other guys, just be proud of what you have accomplished and strive for more, I think were all doing great!

btw mtl are you a hockey fan? Its wierd I actually want winter to come so I can get out on the ice again.
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It's lack of faith that makes people afraid of meeting challenges, and I believed in myself. ~Muhammad Ali

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July 6th 2010: 225 lbs, 24% body fat
Nov 30th 2010: 181 lbs, 12% body fat
Dec 28th 2010: 177 lbs, 11% bf
Total weight loss 48 lbs.

Last edited by midwestj; 07-30-2010 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:33 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by almeeker View Post
Did I mention that my family owns a farm and raises beef cattle? So not only do I believe that cows are fed grass, I know it for a fact. And our farm is pretty much like all the other dairy and beef farms around here and yes they all feed their cows grass too. Why? Because grass just grows right up out of the ground and it's FREE for the price of munching. Corn isn't free, you either have to buy it, or you have to give over a portion of your real estate for 100 days and grow it.
Awesome. Your farm is one that I would like to buy my meat from.

The vast majority of the meat that this nation consume is grain fed (which is primarily corn). High fructose corn syrup is in everything from toilet paper to ketchup to meat. To deny the fact that the MAJORITY of big lot farms feed their cows corn and any other kind of garbage is either naive or ignorant. It is FAR cheaper to feed a cow corn and have him to slaughter in 15 months as opposed to letting the cow mature naturally in the usual 24 months that it ought to take. That is 9 months that they are saving in feed and vet bills. So, yeah, they grow 'em faster with corn because it is cheaper.

Quote:
I feel quite certain that zorb is intentionally inflammatory simply for the sake of advertising another website, which in my book is spam. So I'm done being insulted and explaining myself. I'm not going to read any more posts by zorb, and I urge the rest of you to do the same. Poof gone, no more zorb....
I simply draw reference to that site because he can articulate it much better than I. There are other people to look to as well. Dr. Gundry and

Nutrition News and Notes

The thing is, people don't want to hear something that they are doing is incorrect. I get that. I felt like an idiot too when was told that eating 6 small meals a day was preventing the body from going into starvation mode was bogus (I mean really...only a few hours of not eating is going to cause us to go into starvation mode? How about 4 days--that makes more sense).
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:44 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mtlgirl View Post
Not only is the biochemistry of the human body very complex and not fully understood yet, there are just as many scientific studies that will argue that the human body has evolved since the time before agriculture became standard practice, and therefore whole grains are easily digested by those who have no allergies to them. Some people are lactose intolerant. That doesn't mean no one should drink milk, peanut allergies are also common and perhaps some cavemen died from peanuts. The point I'm making is just because a few doctors or scientists say that grains are bad for us, that is not conclusive enough for me to radically change my diet to totally eliminate a whole food group.
The human body stopped evolving right around 10 000 years ago when grains were introduced into our diet. We DON'T respond well to grains which is why there are multiple dietary related diseases running rampant in our society.

Lactose intolerant IS normal. NO mammal on earth drinks milk beyond infancy besides humans. Not one. Being able to digest milk is actually a genetic mutation that has that person still able to produce lactase beyond infancy which isn't supposed to happen.

The evidence that grains are bad for us is far well known beyond 'just a few doctors' the problem is that there is HUGE subsidies and money handed out to farmers and lobbyist to protect the food/grain industry. Big Pharmacuetical company's control a great deal in this country as well, they WANT people sick and taking drugs daily in order to make money.

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The average life span of the paleolithic human was 35 years so the reality is we don't even know what would happen to their bodies after 70 years of eating such a diet. I don't know a lot of people who suffer from diet-related illnesses before they turn 35 so is it reasonable to say that we should eat the way Paleolithic people ate thousands and thousands of years ago because they were healthier? We are all pretty damn healhty before 35 years of age.
Ahh, yes, the lifespan argument...often children died at birth skewing the life span, but our ancestors had to deal with things like predators on a daily basis. Infection was from injury and injury related deaths were also a reason for early death.

Yahoo! Our lifespan is much longer, but we are all sick, fat and on some sort of drug to keep us from keeling over! It is one thing to live a long life, but thriving within that lifespan is an entirely different animal.

Quote:
Another point Zorba made which I find completely impossible to back up scientifically is that 66% of Americans are fat because they eat grains. That is simply his opinion. I believe so many of us are overweight because of portion size and the quality of the food we eat.
Exactly. The fact that the food that we eat is grain based (where do you thing high-fructose corn syrup comes from--corn...which is a grain........). We eat too much crap food and grains whether it be in the hidden form or flat out from eating whole grains are the culprit. Now you are catching on!
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:30 AM   #27 (permalink)
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First of to say Americans are fat because they eat too many whole grains that break down into sugar is silly.
No, no it isn't. What do you think happens to that huge helping of whole wheat pasta breaks down?

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I don't think anyone out there is getting fat off rye bread and oatmeal.
Alone? Nope. I have read many food logs where people are eating up to 250 grams of carbs per day and they wonder why they feel like they are working against themselves.

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Secondly all food that is not protein, or fat, breaks down to sugar or indigestible cellulose, so tell us to avoid grains because they break down into sugar is also silly.
Ummmm...wrong again, check your science and then get back to me.

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Zorba we get it that you are a fanatic of mark's daily apple, but you need to take a step off your soap box and stop talking down to the members here. Many members here have achieved REAL DOCUMENTED weight loss, using many different methods, to go around telling them they are wrong and only your method is right, is more than a little conceded.
That's awesome that people are losing weight, but weight loss and health aren't always hand in hand. Oh and it isn't MY method at all. The thing is, it is SOOO SIMPLE yet people want to complicate it with all the sillinenss. Cut out grains, exercise and the weight will drop off. Period.

I thought this was a food forum where people are to share ideas and back those ideas with evidence which is exactly what I have done. The issue isn't with me, it is with those who would rather stick their hands over their ears and yell blah, blah, blah, blah...I don't want to hear it because it is different!

I have been direct, yes, but it isn't really my issue if people can't handle hearing something that flies in the face of their firm beliefs. Going against the 'grain', so to speak, sometimes makes one unpopular. Dr. Atkins was threatened with his life because of his beliefs (correct albeit) about diet.

People were also quite irritated at the suggestion that the earth was not flat...

Quote:
You should try being more polite. Suggestions are helpful and encouragement is even better, but when I read most of your posts I dislike the mood. I think the way you post your messages is very unbecoming of fitday. If you are going to continue to preach mark's daily apple up and down these boards how about you start off by making your log public, and document your weight loss for us.
I don't have much to lose so my log would be pretty boring. At worst I have maybe been 10 lbs overweight. I have never had a weight issue. I am living the Primal lifestyle because it makes sense and it is closer to the way we were genetically designed to live. I am trying to lean out and get that six pack that I have never had before (because of eating an abundance of 'healthy whole grains and healthy fruit smoothies') and I came to fitday as a means of keeping tabs on my carb intake--then I found the forum.

I do CrossFit 3x per week, cut out grains and sugar (ice cream was a daily thing for me as well as whole wheat toast and rye bread--no, I wasn't overweight, but I have never been lean either.) Gone are the constant changes in energy levels and headaches no longer exist as well as any general aches and pains that I used to get. I don't have that feeling of 'gotta eat' because my insulin levels are far more stable. I never get that bloated, full feeling after a meal anymore and as a result would rather go for a nice walk after dinner as opposed to flopping on the couch in front of the tv. My world doesn't have to revolve around food anymore, I can go hours without eating and feel fine. When I do eat, I enjoy as much healthy, tasty food as I like.

My friend, however, has had a great deal of success living Primal. He has lost 60 lbs since the middle of March. His inflammation has gone down considerably, his energy level is skyrocketing and his performance at CrossFit is improving weekly. He is doing things that he never thought possible and he isn't rationing, restricting calories or stressing about every little food item that gets put into his mouth. He eats as much as he wants and continues to drop at a rate of 3 lbs per week.


People should try not being so defensive or sensitive. Weight loss is easy, but countless people want change without making meaningful changes.

Have a look at the Primal Blueprint because it works, not because I said so. If I made the hair on some people's neck bristle, fine, but don't use that as a reason to not learn about something that really is a healthy and successful way to live life. I have nothing to gain by people checking it out. I share because it makes sense and it works. There are loads of success stories and reasons to buy in on their forum. Go ahead and take a chance...go against the grain...
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:31 AM   #28 (permalink)
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The argument that the human body stopped evolving 10 000 years ago is not conclusive. There are arguments against this statement by qualified medical studies. No, I will not cite them here because I am not as passionate to win this argument as you are. If you want to believe that this Primal Blueprint is the panacea that you have made it out to be, that's fine with me. The truth as I have observed it is that for several of its claims there are qualified counter arguments.

Who cares why the Paleolithic people died young, I am just saying that without any of them living well into old age, it's impossible to conclude what the long term effects of their diet is on our bodies today, 10 000 years later. Why would you believe that human evolution would suddenly stop 10 000 years ago anyway? It doesn't seem plausible to me. In fact I am willing to put money on the notion that we are still evolving. Many years from now we won't have wisdom teeth. That is called evolution.

As for your quote, "Our lifespan is much longer, but we are all sick, fat and on some sort of drug to keep us from keeling over!"

If this is truly what you believe, I feel very sad for you. What an angry and negative perspective you have on the world and people as a whole. So basically you are saying that if a person is overweight or a person is on medication their life has no value? I would counter that by saying, "Yahoo! You are in great shape and have a lot of energy so you will live a long time, but who wants to live with that much vitriol against their fellow human being. Is life worth living when you are spiritually and emotionally sicker than any of us here?"
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #29 (permalink)
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btw mtl are you a hockey fan? Its wierd I actually want winter to come so I can get out on the ice again.
Well being from Montreal, of course I am a hockey fan! I don't play hockey (good for you for playing!) but I sure do watch when we are in the playoffs! I do love to skate though!
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mtlgirl View Post
The argument that the human body stopped evolving 10 000 years ago is not conclusive. There are arguments against this statement by qualified medical studies. No, I will not cite them here because I am not as passionate to win this argument as you are. If you want to believe that this Primal Blueprint is the panacea that you have made it out to be, that's fine with me. The truth as I have observed it is that for several of its claims there are qualified counter arguments.
It isn't inconclusive. The conclusion on one hand is based on the poor manner in which we process our food. We didn't have the diet related issues then that we have now. I like how people like to make claims yet don't bother to make any effort to back their claim and I am the one who is not behaving properly in the forum lol!

Quote:
Who cares why the Paleolithic people died young, I am just saying that without any of them living well into old age, it's impossible to conclude what the long term effects of their diet is on our bodies today, 10 000 years later.
Without any of them living well into old age? You don't believe that they all died at 35 do you. You understand that their average life span at 35 means their mean, not their max age, right?

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Why would you believe that human evolution would suddenly stop 10 000 years ago anyway? It doesn't seem plausible to me. In fact I am willing to put money on the notion that we are still evolving. Many years from now we won't have wisdom teeth. That is called evolution.
I don't believe that we suddenly stopped, but genetically our bodies aren't designed to deal with the modern diet. The evidence in this lies in the ailments and illness that are rampant in our society.

RE: wisdom teeth---?? huh??? source??

Quote:
As for your quote, "Our lifespan is much longer, but we are all sick, fat and on some sort of drug to keep us from keeling over!"

If this is truly what you believe, I feel very sad for you.
This isn't what I believe, this is fact. The level of obesity in this country is at an all time high and climbing.

Obesity rates in America

Obesity and Overweight for Professionals: Data and Statistics: U.S. Obesity Trends | DNPAO | CDC

Obesity rates rise throughout USA

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What an angry and negative perspective you have on the world and people as a whole. So basically you are saying that if a person is overweight or a person is on medication their life has no value?
Nope, that isn't what I am saying at all and the fact that you draw that parallel is laughable.

Quote:
I would counter that by saying, "Yahoo! You are in great shape and have a lot of energy so you will live a long time, but who wants to live with that much vitriol against their fellow human being. Is life worth living when you are spiritually and emotionally sicker than any of us here?"
Wow...what a conclusion you have drawn, all because you refuse to do any research that may go against what you believe to be true. Methinks someone is a wee bit closed minded here...

Keep in mind, I USED to be a full on believer in whole grains and ate bread at every meal. I was never fat or unhealthy, but I made a change because I got some education and the research that I have done makes sense and there is independent (not government driven propaganda) that supports it.

Last edited by zorba1331; 07-30-2010 at 01:51 AM.
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