Go Back   FitDay Discussion Boards > FITNESS > Exercise
Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-11-2010, 09:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 576
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleKoren View Post
I bought some soy protein powder (supposed to be good for building, I think, while whey is supposed to be great for repairing) I might have it backwards. I figure my diet contains mostly milk and animal protein and lack in the vegetable based protein.
The differences in the sources of protein are a lot more subtle than that. The differences are mainly in the amino acid content (whey and egg protein are the most "complete," i.e., greatest variety of amino acids) and depending on the purity of the source, the presence of phytochemicals. For example, soy protein sources often come with soy isoflavones, which are natural substances within the soybean that mimic estrogen, which is also why soy products are discouraged for men. Wheat proteins usually include gluten so they shouldn't be had by people with gluten allergies.

Ultimately, though, the fate of the dietary protein itself is the same regardless of the source. The body breaks up the large protein molecules into the individual amino acids, then builds its own proteins out of them.

Interestingly, broccoli happens to be a good veggie source of protein, and you get tons of great phytochemicals along with it to boot.
__________________
-Nik


My rules:
1) eat real food - more vegetables, moderate meat, moderate fruits, less grains, less sugar, less vegetable oils.
2) exercise - moderate intensity cardio, sprinting, heavy lifting, dedicated stretching and mobility.
3) live - relax, de-stress, meditate.

Disclaimer: I'm not professionally qualified to make any formal recommendations. I've just done my homework and I'm my own guinea pig. All of my data, unless otherwise cited, comes from a sample size of n=1 (me).
tandoorichicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2010, 01:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Lizzycritter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 687
Default

Pretty much anything (diet or exercise), I'd give it a good 2 weeks to decide if it's helping or not. Some great protein sources are lean dairy, greek yogurt, eggs and egg whites, tuna, beans, brown rice...lots more on down the line. Hommus is a great veggie protein source, makes a great dip if you like raw veggies. Canned beans, rinsed and drained, on top of a salad is super easy, and you can get a lot of variety just by changing up the type of bean. Great northern beans are kinda mushy, but black beans, kidney beans, and chickpeas all work great.

If all else fails, you KNOW your numbers are right, and things still just aren't moving, it might be time to see the doctor. If you've got a thyroid condition or Cushing's disease, then it may be impossible for you to move that scale without medical intervention.
__________________
If I keep starting over, eventually it will stick, right?

Starting weight:182
Current weight: 140
Goal weight: 135
Lizzycritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2010, 01:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 60
Default

Okay, the protein is working. I have been keeping my protein about 25 to 30 %, daily. I also added a day of 25 minutes interval training, just in case my body is getting used to the kung fu. The scale hasn't moved, but my waistline has moved about and inch. Whew. Thanks for the advice, people.
MichelleKoren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2010, 04:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 143
Default

Great to hear! Keep us updated.
yauncin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 08:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by almeeker View Post
When you list off the foods you are eating, it sounds like it's mostly carbs, low-cal, low-fat, healthy carbs, but carbs all the same. You might need to up your protein intake and keep the calorie intake about the same and see if that doesn't make a difference. I hit a plateau eating 1,300/day with about 50-50% carbs, but when I boost my protein to 30-40% I can eat 1,600 and still keep the scale dropping. But it's a little different for everyone.
This guy has it right. Basically, if you eat very little protein, then you're shortchanging yourself out of a lot of the benefits of exercise. The main benefit of excercise is not the few hundred kcals you burn during it, but the fact that after damaging your muscles and joints your body will change the way in which it uses fuels. Protein will become much more useful to your body and you will therefore be able to eat much more (quantity-wise) food as long as protein is kept at around 1 gram per pound of body weight every day. If you don't provide your body with the protein it needs, it simply doesn't make any adaptations to training and you've largely wasted your time.

Work out and eat high protein -> you can eat 1500 calories and lose weight
work out and eat low protein -> 1500 calories might not be low enough to lose weight because your body simply neglects making training adaptations.

In other words, if you dont supply the protein necessary for REPAIR, then your body simply won't make those repairs and therefore will forego burning the tons of calories that it takes to make those repairs.

BTW, if you're gaining muscle at the same rate at which you're losing fat, you definitely need to adjust something because the maximum rate at which muscle can be built is dozens of times lower than the maximum healthy rate at which fat can be lost, especially in the case of women.

Also, I'm pretty sure you're underestimating your calories in. You're probably not counting things like the creamer in your coffee, or maybe if you're old, fitday is overestimating your calories spent.

Another thing to do is not include every little mundane activity you do in your activities log, since the estimates for calkories burnt doing things like walking your dog and carrying groceries can be way off. Only include your actual workouts and your lifestyle. And get a HR monitor to get a better estimate of calories burnt during exercise.
vic616283 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 08:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tandoorichicken View Post
The differences in the sources of protein are a lot more subtle than that. The differences are mainly in the amino acid content (whey and egg protein are the most "complete," i.e., greatest variety of amino acids) and depending on the purity of the source, the presence of phytochemicals. For example, soy protein sources often come with soy isoflavones, which are natural substances within the soybean that mimic estrogen, which is also why soy products are discouraged for men. Wheat proteins usually include gluten so they shouldn't be had by people with gluten allergies.

Ultimately, though, the fate of the dietary protein itself is the same regardless of the source. The body breaks up the large protein molecules into the individual amino acids, then builds its own proteins out of them.

Interestingly, broccoli happens to be a good veggie source of protein, and you get tons of great phytochemicals along with it to boot.
The concentration of Essential Aminoacids and BCAAs also changes from protein to protein. Whey has a ton of BCAAs compared to most other sources.

The amount of EAAs and BCAAs in your bloodstream also improves performance and is a significant factor in preventing muscle breakdown during excercise. I forgot the source for this but it's on pubmed if you want to dig for it.
vic616283 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 08:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6
Default

Train for training, not for loosing weight, that's where the frustration comes from. You train expecting to loose weight. Instead, train because you love it, to unload stress, to challenge yourself, to sweat, to love it...I think the weight will come off as soon as you stop obsessing on it.
paleorainy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 09:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 576
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic616283 View Post
The concentration of Essential Aminoacids and BCAAs also changes from protein to protein. Whey has a ton of BCAAs compared to most other sources.

The amount of EAAs and BCAAs in your bloodstream also improves performance and is a significant factor in preventing muscle breakdown during excercise. I forgot the source for this but it's on pubmed if you want to dig for it.
That's pretty much what I said. BCAA is a convenient abbreviation that looks good in large italic print for supplement companies, so I prefer to just refer to them individually.

Leucine is the amino acid that promotes protein synthesis and prevents its breakdown; most of the studies coming out of labs like Jeff Volek's have looked at leucine. Isoleucine and valine (the other branch-chain aminos) are necessary as well, but like all the other amino acids, serve primarily as the building blocks of the various proteins themselves. Each acid also has it's own biochemical properties, but they don't relate to the discussion at hand. Whey is high in leucine, as are eggs, but both are considered complete because of their inclusion of all essential and proteinogenic amino acids.

Plant-based proteins are less complete, and so they need to be combined for full effect.
__________________
-Nik


My rules:
1) eat real food - more vegetables, moderate meat, moderate fruits, less grains, less sugar, less vegetable oils.
2) exercise - moderate intensity cardio, sprinting, heavy lifting, dedicated stretching and mobility.
3) live - relax, de-stress, meditate.

Disclaimer: I'm not professionally qualified to make any formal recommendations. I've just done my homework and I'm my own guinea pig. All of my data, unless otherwise cited, comes from a sample size of n=1 (me).
tandoorichicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 09:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tandoorichicken View Post
That's pretty much what I said. BCAA is a convenient abbreviation that looks good in large italic print for supplement companies, so I prefer to just refer to them individually.

Leucine is the amino acid that promotes protein synthesis and prevents its breakdown; most of the studies coming out of labs like Jeff Volek's have looked at leucine. Isoleucine and valine (the other branch-chain aminos) are necessary as well, but like all the other amino acids, serve primarily as the building blocks of the various proteins themselves. Each acid also has it's own biochemical properties, but they don't relate to the discussion at hand. Whey is high in leucine, as are eggs, but both are considered complete because of their inclusion of all essential and proteinogenic amino acids.

Plant-based proteins are less complete, and so they need to be combined for full effect.
I just wanted to point out that it's not just the "Variety" of aminoacids (because honestly, who cares about how much aspartate or cisteine you're getting from your protein source?) but also the raw amount per gram of BCAAs and other EAAs found in your protein source. To put it in ambiguous laymen's terms: whey and eggs are more performance-enhancing protein sources than soy or spinach.
vic616283 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2010, 11:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
FitDay Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 576
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic616283 View Post
I just wanted to point out that it's not just the "Variety" of aminoacids (because honestly, who cares about how much aspartate or cisteine you're getting from your protein source?) but also the raw amount per gram of BCAAs and other EAAs found in your protein source. To put it in ambiguous laymen's terms: whey and eggs are more performance-enhancing protein sources than soy or spinach.
All 20 proteinogenic amino acids are essential for muscle building, because they form the myosin and actin chains that generate contractile force in the first place. If I didn't care about the other 19, I'd just eat pure leucine with my vegetables. Plus, as I said earlier, each of the other aminos has specific and necessary biological functions besides comprising larger protein molecules. Aspartate plays a role in synthesizing inositol, which in turn regulates bodyfat storage and reduces circulating cholesterol and also determines cellular structure. Cysteine, in addition to glycine and glutamate, is a part of the antioxidant glutathione, which keeps the immune system running at full steam, which means less downtime, which means more gains in the gym.

In any case, the bottom line is to get your protein for protein's sake from animal sources, because they will contain everything you need in one source. If you're vegetarian, you're going to have to mix and match protein from different sources, like broccoli, potatoes, maybe some grains, because plants are much more specific in the aminos that they produce.
__________________
-Nik


My rules:
1) eat real food - more vegetables, moderate meat, moderate fruits, less grains, less sugar, less vegetable oils.
2) exercise - moderate intensity cardio, sprinting, heavy lifting, dedicated stretching and mobility.
3) live - relax, de-stress, meditate.

Disclaimer: I'm not professionally qualified to make any formal recommendations. I've just done my homework and I'm my own guinea pig. All of my data, unless otherwise cited, comes from a sample size of n=1 (me).
tandoorichicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
soy

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2