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Old 02-14-2012, 06:00 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Well stated, clarkslp.

It's only wise to take in more fiber as the saturated fats go up. Since toledodba25 posted his macros it's certainly fair to comment on them. Advice can be taken or not.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:54 AM   #142 (permalink)
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@ toledodba25:

If you're averaging 40 grams of saturated fat a day, which is about double the recommended amount, you should at be eating more fiber. You're average is only 25 grams. I'd recommend upping that to 40 grams a day.
Don't get me wrong, I want feedback. I even asked for a critique! I just don't understand why you need more fiber if you eat more saturated fats. What is the correlation?

I've seen two purposes for fiber:

1) keeping you regular
2) slowing down the processing of high glycemic index foods so that your blood sugar doesn't spike

I've never had a problem with 1, either before or after the paleo diet. 2 is not an issue on the paleo diet.

So what am I missing? What is the relationship between fiber and saturated fats?

Thanks for your feedback!
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:00 AM   #143 (permalink)
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Basing a diet on what our Paleolithic ancestors needed or didn't need can be detrimental towards long term health.
I had a thought this morning that I'm not 100% sure I've heard anyone address before about the theory of evolution weeding out the weak. It seems to me that conditions of weakness are *only* filtered out through natural selection when they occur during or before the breeding years. For humans this would be what, 15 to 40? It makes sense that natural selection ensures that our anscestors diet was near ideal to get us through the breeding years, but I'm having a hard time seeing how natural selection would have any role in weeding out conditions that occured beyond the breeding years. What this means is saying "Well, Grok did it, thus it must be good for us, for it's part of our evolution" may not hold for conditions that don't surface until 50 or 60 years of age. At that point, you're done having kids so those weaknesses would already be passed on to the next generation.

So Grok's diet might be very good for getting us to 50 or 60, but it may not be the ideal diet to get us to 90.

I'm not a genius or anything, so I'm sure some one some where has thought of this before, but it was an interesting light bulb that went on for me this morning...
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:08 AM   #144 (permalink)
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Saturated fat is not essential to your body. It is found mainly in animal products such as meat, poultry, and dairy. All of these foods also contain dietary cholesterol. Palm oil, palm kernel oil, and coconut oil also contain saturated fats, and a lot of processed foods like cookies and crackers contain these oils. On the box it may say "No Cholesterol," but if you check the nutritional info, it may still contain saturated fat from those hidden oils. How sneaky. Saturated fats raise LDL (bad) cholesterol levels more than dietary cholesterol itself, so they're the ones to watch out for. The RDI of saturated fat is 20g or less.
And fiber lowers cholesterol. So it's not the saturated fat per se, it's the cholesterol you're taking in with that 40 grams of saturated fat every day.

How Fiber Helps Lower Your Cholesterol
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:50 PM   #145 (permalink)
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OK, Iíve been doing some research on fiber and cholesterol. It looks like soluble fiber is the only type that helps with cholesterol. Insoluble does nothing for it:

Dietary Fiber: Insoluble and Soluble Fiber

Here are the sources of soluble and insoluble fiber:

ē Sources of soluble fiber: oatmeal, oat cereal, lentils, apples, oranges, pears, oat bran, strawberries, nuts, flaxseeds, beans, dried peas, blueberries, psyllium, cucumbers, celery, and carrots.
ē Sources of insoluble fiber: whole wheat, whole grains, wheat bran, corn bran, seeds, nuts, barley, couscous, brown rice, bulgur, zucchini, celery, broccoli, cabbage, onions, tomatoes, carrots, cucumbers, green beans, dark leafy vegetables, raisins, grapes, fruit, and root vegetable skins.

Itís obviously not 100%, but it seems like the bulk of the insoluble comes from grains, which are not part of my diet. While Iím only getting 25 grams of fiber, is it likely that the bulk of this is soluble fiber?

If a more traditional diet yielded 40 grams of fiber, how much of it would be soluble? 50%? If so, that is 20 grams. If the fiber Iím getting is predominantly soluble, I could be near 20 grams right now. So maybe Iím ok?

I should also mention two things I noticed after doing this 10 day analysis of my diet via fitday:

1. I was getting less than the RDA of potassium
2. My calories burned regularly exceeded my calories consumed.

Part of the reason I meticulously tracked my food intake on fitday was out of concern over getting enough vitamins and minerals, since Iíd cut out one entire food group (grains). I was pleased to see that I was doing well on all the micronutrients but one, potassium. Falling short in one category shouldnít be too hard to fix, right?

Point 2 above is a concern for Iíve lost all the weight I care to lose, I love this weight, yet I keep getting lighter! Clearly I need more calories. Mark Sisson recommends 100 to 150 grams of carbs a day to maintain weight, but for more active people they might need closer to 200. (Iím pretty active.) If you need more, he recommends working in some starchy tubers. I looked up the stats for a sweet potato, and if I add it daily to what Iíve been in eating, in addition to bringing up my carbs, it brings my potassium intake up to the RDA almost to the milligram, and low and behold it is one of the best sources of fiber to boot, weighing in at 13grams! This brings me up to 38 grams of fiber a day. The link above recommends 30-38 for men, so Iíd be at the upper range. Since I donít eat grains, Iím guessing a larger proportion of that 38 is soluble, so 38 should be enough to regulate my cholesterol, hopefully.

The last week or so Iíve been adding a whole sweet potato each day to my diet. Itís been a little difficult to do this in addition to all the food Iíd been eating, as opposed to in place of some of the food I had been eating before, as sweet potatoes are very filling and I was not going hungry previously. I ate as much as I wanted, so long as it was a paleo approved food. Iíve managed to do it though, and at least so far my weight has become stable. Weíll see where itís at in a few weeks.
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:09 PM   #146 (permalink)
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I looked up the stats for a sweet potato, and if I add it daily to what Iíve been in eating, in addition to bringing up my carbs, it brings my potassium intake up to the RDA almost to the milligram, and low and behold it is one of the best sources of fiber to boot, weighing in at 13grams! This brings me up to 38 grams of fiber a day. The link above recommends 30-38 for men, so Iíd be at the upper range. Since I donít eat grains, Iím guessing a larger proportion of that 38 is soluble, so 38 should be enough to regulate my cholesterol, hopefully.

The last week or so Iíve been adding a whole sweet potato each day to my diet. Itís been a little difficult to do this in addition to all the food Iíd been eating, as opposed to in place of some of the food I had been eating before, as sweet potatoes are very filling and I was not going hungry previously. I ate as much as I wanted, so long as it was a paleo approved food. Iíve managed to do it though, and at least so far my weight has become stable. Weíll see where itís at in a few weeks.
Smart! I eat a sweet potato daily as a source of potassium and fiber. It really helps a lot in both departments. I use non fat sour cream on top and it's simply delicious. For an added boost of potassium (if needed) I'll add some "No Salt" KCl alternative salt.

Good to see you've got a handle on everything. Best wishes for your continued success!
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:49 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Smart! I eat a sweet potato daily as a source of potassium and fiber. It really helps a lot in both departments. I use non fat sour cream on top and it's simply delicious.
Just thought I'd mention that when on the paleo diet it is acceptable to top with butter, full fat sour cream, or full fat (plain) yogurt...
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:45 PM   #148 (permalink)
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toledodba,

Sounds like you are really researching and adapting your food plan, which is commendable. I think a lot of people tend to get on a specific diet and refuse to budge and think theirs is the only way to loss weight.

One more thing to share...nicely written article on the benefits of fiber..

Fiber: Start Roughing It! - What Should I Eat? - The Nutrition Source - Harvard School of Public Health
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:40 PM   #149 (permalink)
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I think a lot of people tend to get on a specific diet and refuse to budge and think theirs is the only way to loss weight.
I agree. I've seen this, especially from folks who have read a book and have decided that they've got to follow it to the letter.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:21 PM   #150 (permalink)
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I agree. I've seen this, especially from folks who have read a book and have decided that they've got to follow it to the letter.
I try to always be open to new evidence. (This is a good practice for all areas of your life, not just nutrition.)

With that in mind, have any of you checked out this series?

Primitive Nutrition 1: The New Barbarians - YouTube

It's always good to hear what the "other side" has to say, and this guy has a great deal of scientific data supporting his case.

Here is some return fire from the Paleo community:

"How to win an argument with a vegetarian" by Denise Minger on Vimeo

I'm curious what others think about this debate.

Thanks for all the feedback!
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