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littlegreeneone 07-24-2010 02:08 AM

Dangers of the Atkins Diet!
 
Hello Everyone,
I've noticed a lot of threads regarding the Atkins diet. I just hope that all who follow this diet understand the SERIOUS health concerns associated with it.

First of all, your body and your brain need carbs to function properly, period. The brain thrives off of glucose, basically sugar from carbs. When there is not enough glycogen to be used by the brain, your body turns to fat stores, which is why many people lose significant amounts of weight on this diet.

However, after a long period of lack of carbohydrates, the liver begins to produce ketone bodies leading to a condition called ketosis. Ketone bodies create an acidic pH in the blood, causing the body to suck calcium out of the bones to neutralized the blood pH.

This kind of diet can stress the liver and kidneys, destroy muscle tissue and lead to weaker bones. Its definitely a quick fix for losing weight fast, but just ask yourself if its really worth the health risks. Remember, Dr. Atkins suffered a heart attack which the American Heart Association linked to the Atkins Diet.

Just in case you were wondering, I choose to follow a raw, vegan diet.

almeeker 07-24-2010 02:28 AM

I'm not on Atkins, and I agree completely that it is potentially dangerous over a long period of time. But I also feel that being a vegetarian is not the path for me to be fit and healthy. Through most of college I was a practicing vegetarian, but ended up having to give it up because that diet gave me a few serious health issues. Basically my doctor determined that my body is unable to absorb iron from vegetable sources, which left me so anemic that I almost required a blood transfusion. In my opinion living completely on one specific food category can have a damaging impact on your health.

tandoorichicken 07-24-2010 04:34 AM

Littlegreeneone,

I agree that the Atkins is not a healthy diet plan over the long term, but only because it doesn't specifically eschew eating processed foods over whole, natural foods. However, I am worried that you are making the same mistake countless dieticians have made over this topic: ignoring/misunderstanding basic body chemistry.

The brain as well as most organ tissues of the body (such as the heart, liver, kidneys, GI organs) function perfectly well without glucose.

The structural tissues of the body (muscle, bone, skin, cartilage) burn predominantly sugar for their energy, and thus would be in danger from complete carb elimination. However, thanks to gluconeogenesis from amino acids and glycerol within the body, as well as judicious carb consumption (fewer than 100g/day max), these tissues can thrive as well in a ketotic environment.

In response to a low carbohydrate environment produce by diet, the liver begins to produce ketones right away — not after a "long period of lack of carbohydrates." As ketones build up in the blood stream, the brain gradually shifts from burning glucose to burning mainly ketones as fuel, thus eliminating them from the blood stream and keeping pH neutral. Thanks to this process, the body can avoid having to break down muscle tissue to supply the amino acids for gluconeogenesis because the brain is no longer eating through gratuitous amounts of glucose, which happen to be scarce during a low-carb diet.

In conjuntion with the above, muscle can also be spared by getting adequate protein in the diet, which contrary to popular belief, does not cause kidney dysfunction. A higher protein intake will severely tax the filtration systems of diabetes patients and others with nephropathy, but up to 1.5g/lb lean body mass are entirely safe in people with normal, healthy kidneys.

I should also point out that increased protein intake, combined with moderate exercises increases bone mass, not decreases it. Protein is as vital a component of bone as calcium, in that it helps the bone cells process calcium and phosphorous and plays a critical role in their metabolism.

Finally, the diet I follow is highly sustainable over the long term. Carbohydrates are implicated in chronic inflammation, and wheat itself has very strong correlations with heart disease and hypertension. Omega-6 oils derived from plant sources also lead to inflammation, and when cooked with readily transform into trans fats. I know correlations are not causations, but it is unfair to implicate animal product as the sole cause of diseases of civilization when there are plenty of plant products that fit the bill as well.

Just in case you're wondering, I choose to follow a low-carb, whole foods diet with plenty of grass-fed/free-range/wild-caught meat (variety of animals), dairy, and eggs, as well as plenty of leafy green and multi-colored vegetables, nuts and seeds, various oils, as well as the occasional fruit, beans, or grains (mostly barley and quinoa). I do a lot of cooking myself so I know exactly what's in my food.

rockmonky 07-24-2010 05:17 AM

tandoorichicken,

Thanks for the reply. You seem to have a better understanding of the body's metabolic pathways than I do. I am just concerned for those who believe that following the Atkins diet is a safe approach to weight loss.

I absolutely agree with you that protein is essential. I simply pointed out that when one has an acidic blood pH, the body will try to neutralize it by using calcium stored in bones. Eating a diet of primarily meat can lead to an acidic condition in the body. Whereas plant based protein have and alkalizing effect on the body.

rockmonky 07-24-2010 05:23 AM

almeeker,

I'm sorry you had such a difficult time on a vegetarian diet. I think everyone has find a diet that suits them and their needs. I say, there's nothing wrong with eating meat as long as you know where it's coming from. The best option
is supporting local farmers and choosing grass-fed or even organic meat.

Unfortunately, some people seem to have trouble absorbing iron. Even some meat eater are actually iron deficient. How are your iron levels these days?

littlegreeneone 07-24-2010 05:25 AM

Sorry for the confusion,

I posted my responses under my boyfriend's account (rockmonky)

tandoorichicken 07-24-2010 05:29 AM

Um... did you change your username greene? :D

Protein in general can have a small net acid load on the blood regardless of whether it comes from plants or animals. This small net acid load can be easily offset by eating plenty of multi-colored vegetables. Remember, there are no carnivorous humans, only omnivores and, if you so choose, herbivores. So there is no excuse for anyone not to eat their vegetables. I get my fair share of veggies and then some and lift weights to boot, so I know my bones are solid and healthy.

It's not the diet itself that I find damaging, it's the way its spun, oversimplified, and marketed. It's the marketing that says eat whatever you want as long as its not carb. The diet itself, from the original source, teaches calorie restriction, which is the tried and true method for weight loss. But the huge Atkins brand that exists today consists of more of the same processed, nutritionally broken-down and reconstituted junk that groups like LeanCuisine have been putting out for years.

almeeker 07-24-2010 05:59 AM


Originally Posted by rockmonky (Post 16673)
almeeker,

I'm sorry you had such a difficult time on a vegetarian diet. I think everyone has find a diet that suits them and their needs. I say, there's nothing wrong with eating meat as long as you know where it's coming from. The best option
is supporting local farmers and choosing grass-fed or even organic meat.

Unfortunately, some people seem to have trouble absorbing iron. Even some meat eater are actually iron deficient. How are your iron levels these days?

Actually, my parents are local farmers, so knowing exactly where my meat comes from and what it's been fed, is a given, well beef and hogs anyway. They don't raise poultry anymore. I also put in a pretty large garden (2 acres) and do a lot of canning, so I have to buy very few veggies.

My iron levels are pretty good these days. To keep them up I take a daily iron supplement, and eat red meat at least 2 times/week, usually closer to 3 (because there's 1/2 a steer in the freezer). I still feel that I could be a vegetarian most days, I just don't crave meat very often. But I know from past experience that it's not my path to good health. The interesting part of my situation is that both of my parents have similar absorption issues as does one of my daughters, who in fact was hospitalized for anemia and had to have blood transfusions. At the time that happened she wasn't following a strict vegetarian diet, but she was little and really didn't eat a lot of anything let alone meat.

My SIL is a hard core vegetarian, and she's always trying to convince our children to abstain from meat, even though I've explained to her repeatedly why it's not an option for them. We've explained it very carefully to our children why they can't or at least shouldn't be vegetarians, so they at least understand and just brush off their aunt when she starts up with it. It's not that I'm against a vegetarian lifestyle, it's just that I can't participate in it, nor can my children.

littlegreeneone 07-25-2010 06:28 AM

almeeker,

I'm glad you know where your meat is coming from and Wow, I wish my garden was 2 acres! Also, congrats on losing almost 100lbs, that gotta feel good :)

RichardBuckner 07-29-2010 05:06 AM


Originally Posted by littlegreeneone (Post 16657)
Hello Everyone,
I've noticed a lot of threads regarding the Atkins diet. I just hope that all who follow this diet understand the SERIOUS health concerns associated with it.

First of all, your body and your brain need carbs to function properly, period. The brain thrives off of glucose, basically sugar from carbs. When there is not enough glycogen to be used by the brain, your body turns to fat stores, which is why many people lose significant amounts of weight on this diet.

However, after a long period of lack of carbohydrates, the liver begins to produce ketone bodies leading to a condition called ketosis. Ketone bodies create an acidic pH in the blood, causing the body to suck calcium out of the bones to neutralized the blood pH.

This kind of diet can stress the liver and kidneys, destroy muscle tissue and lead to weaker bones. Its definitely a quick fix for losing weight fast, but just ask yourself if its really worth the health risks. Remember, Dr. Atkins suffered a heart attack which the American Heart Association linked to the Atkins Diet.

Just in case you were wondering, I choose to follow a raw, vegan diet.

Your message is discouraging for serious contemporary dieters and shows a complete lack of ignorance of the scientific research that had taken place over the last 20 years. Your body converts fat and protein into glucose and using the net carbs count makes it a little easier than strictly counting carbs. You sound like the old school fat free diet thinking. Moderate ketosis does no harm; hunter gatherers, modern day Eskimos and careful Atkins dieters live without harm. Of course everything in moderation. I am on the pre maintenance phase of New Atkins and have lost 35 pounds. I carefully monitor my nutrition intake and exercise. I get plenty of calcium without supplements. I go to see my doctor regularly and have CBC, lipid panel and complete metabolic screenings. Everything is in normal range. My cholesterol is off the normal range on the low side. I do not take mobic or any cholesterol or tri glyceride controlling drug. My acid reflux has disappeared. Most of the time I am hunger free and have higher energy. This kind of sophomoric palaver just does harm.
Rick

Primal-Lioness 07-29-2010 05:40 AM

Every single one of you are WRONG, WRONG AND VERY INCORRECT.

There is nothing unhealthy about the 4 Phases of Atkins. It is not a NO carb diet. It is a controlled carb way of life.

The way Atkins was orginally intended (before Dr Atkins passed away) was with the consumption of WHOLE and ORGANIC foods. Pick up the 2002 edition of the book and read it. You will find how much you are all wrong with the myths and lies you are spouting here.

Phase 1 - Takes out all carbs, except for a long list of Vegetables and Protein. You eat 20 grams of carbs in the form of Vegetables. This is done to rid your body of cravings for sugars and starches.

Phase 2 - This is where you start adding in more veggies higher in carbs and start adding in fruits, grains, beans, legumes, dairy and alcohol according to the Carb ladder (which is based on the glycemic index). You add in 1 category of foods at a time to check to see if you have any food intolerances.

Phase 3 - Pre-maintenance. You find the MAXIMUM carb count your body can handle and weight loss slows down so you can start learning to maintain.

Phase 4 - Lifetime Maintenance.............


Before you come on a public weight loss forum with the myths and lies about any eating plan. DO THE RESEARCH - READ THE BOOK FOR YOURSELF.

I can't stand media tail gaters.

Pixie5477 07-29-2010 09:58 AM

Wow... I should probably keep my mouth shut, but I think everyone is being a little harsh on littlegreenone... First of all, I was on the carb diet for 9 months and it affected my memory and learning processes for a long time after I quit. I'm not saying that would happen to everyone, but it happened to me.

Secondly, I believe that each person has different nutrition and diet needs. There is not one single way to do this correctly. We have to follow our instincts, see what works best with our OWN body.

Third... This is simply a forum. Ideas are shared and each and every individual has the responsibility to interpret what they read and reasearch the facts. Never believe everything you read. That's ridiculous. Especially when it comes to your own body. Everyone is different.

Personally, I have enjoyed hearing different viewpoints and suggestions. I do my research ane experiment to see what works for me. In the end, my diet / lifestyle is a mix and match of many different suggestions and ideas.

davej323 07-29-2010 10:40 AM

Don't believe the hype!
 

Originally Posted by littlegreeneone (Post 16657)
Hello Everyone,
I've noticed a lot of threads regarding the Atkins diet. I just hope that all who follow this diet understand the SERIOUS health concerns associated with it.

First of all, your body and your brain need carbs to function properly, period. The brain thrives off of glucose, basically sugar from carbs. When there is not enough glycogen to be used by the brain, your body turns to fat stores, which is why many people lose significant amounts of weight on this diet.

However, after a long period of lack of carbohydrates, the liver begins to produce ketone bodies leading to a condition called ketosis. Ketone bodies create an acidic pH in the blood, causing the body to suck calcium out of the bones to neutralized the blood pH.

This kind of diet can stress the liver and kidneys, destroy muscle tissue and lead to weaker bones. Its definitely a quick fix for losing weight fast, but just ask yourself if its really worth the health risks. Remember, Dr. Atkins suffered a heart attack which the American Heart Association linked to the Atkins Diet.

Just in case you were wondering, I choose to follow a raw, vegan diet.

I see a couple of people have already straightened out the fact from fiction so I will spare you the repetition and chastising, but I encourage you to do a google search for "inuit diet." These artic natives have been living for hundreds of years on a diet built exclusively on fat and protein. Also be aware of the fact that ketogenic diets are used to treat childhood epilepsy, and these children stay on such a diet for long periods of time with no ill side effects. Finally, Dr. Atkins did not die from a heart attack. He died from complications related to a head injury after a fall that put him in a coma. There is evidence that he had heart complications at one point in his life, but that was reportedly a heart infection that had nothing to do with his diet. Critics of his diet like to point out that he was 258 pounds at the time of death, but much of this weight came from organ failure and bloating during his coma. He was 195 pounds when he was first admitted to the hospital after his fall. If you do the research, you will also find that much of the negative publicity about the Atkins diet comes from an organization called "Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine," a group backed and funded by PETA. Some of the other doubt comes from the dietician community, who typically use USDA recommendations as the basis for their dietary advice. The USDA is the government organization that was created to give government representation to farmers. Wheat, corn, rice, and soy are the biggest crops in the US, so it's no surprise that they have a problem with a diet that advocates carb restriction. It's unfortunate but true that political influences have given a negative connotation to this otherwise healthy diet.

I would also like to add that, while there are plenty of Atkins brand products available, the book does not suggest or even recommend that they be purchased. They are designed as convenience products meant to be used infrequently in a diet made largely from fresh, whole, natural foods. In one version of the book, Dr. Atkins even gives the ingredients of his multivitamin so that readers can get the ingredients of that vitamin from other sources (I found that GNC Men's Mega was very close in most of the ingredients and much cheaper). I don't use any of the Atkins brand products and the diet is working wonderfully for me.

Dave
__________________________________________________
stats, inspired by Ron

Male, 6'0" tall, 37 y/o

Starting weight, 4/19/10 (started Atkins) = 287
6/16/10 (finished Atkins book & joined Fitday) = 261
latest weight 7/21/10 = 248.5
mini goal (wedding) 9/4/10 = 235
ultimate goal for lifetime maintenance by 4/19/11 (one year mark, 100 pounds loss) = 187
This will be my lightest weight since high school!

135for35 07-29-2010 04:12 PM

Humans are omnivore., We're designed to basically be able to eat whatever food is available to us and survive off it. If from this point on all we could ever eat was meat we would live fine off it. The same goes for grain foods or just fruits and vegetables If that's all we had available to us to eat we would live fine off it as well.


now as for atkins when you're beyond the first two weeks of induction it's the same as just about any other diet out there. It's a balance of natural and healthy whole foods with minimal refined sugars and processed foods.

SailorDoom 07-29-2010 06:19 PM

I agree with Pixie, specifically on point #3. I'm not really into some of the negative and emotionally-charged comments I've seen on the forums in general lately. Getting upset and informing someone of their "complete lack of ignorance" [sic] is not progressing the conversation, nor is it informative for those of us stumbling upon a particular thread for the first time. A single person's experience does not translate to all those who utilize these forums and voicing an opinion respectfully and calmly certainly does no one harm. There are many ways to lose weight, get healthy, and -- most importantly! -- feel good.

Incidentally, I happen to be an archaeologist specializing in paleolithic arctic cultures and from that bias/perspective I would advise skepticism toward the so-called Paleo Diet/Primal Blueprint as it is "packaged". Before you jump all over me, all I mean by this is that these diets, as products, are not what they claim to be -- Grok (i.e. paleolithic humans) gained nourishment, sometimes incomplete, from an unbelievably wide variety of food sources and many of the macronutrient percentages given in the variations of this diet are not always what a "standard" (if there were such a thing) hunter-gatherer would consume. If I had to generalize, most paleolithic peoples partook in a seasonal round, a "migration" of sometimes extraordinary scale, in order to exploit resources available at different times of the year. This is especially true of arctic peoples, as seasonal resource availability so pronounced. The misconception that arctic peoples subsisted almost solely on animal fat and protein is partially based on the archaeological record, which is biased toward preservation of faunal (animal) remains rather than floral (plant-based). Historic accounts, while amazingly detailed, are also biased – simply put, Jesuit missionaries and intrepid explorers were looking for differences rather than similarities to their own cultures. Consumption of seal oil and five year old fermented fish heads would certainly turn up on their radar while marine grasses and berries would not! :D In any case, the Inuit are an extreme example. As a general rule, "primitive" diets become more carbohydrate rich and nutritionally varied the closer you get to the equator. Paleo diet gurus (who often are hawking books and supplements in addition to the diet itself) would like us to believe there are some foods we can't or shouldn't eat, however paleolithic humankind in all its variation is proof positive that we are nothing if not adaptable. Furthermore, these diets, though they claim to be based on current research, are riddled with what I would consider "old school" anthropological thought (optimal foraging theory, for example). Anyway, just some "food" for thought (haha! I'll be here all night!). As 135 touched on, I'm certainly not saying that the Primal/Paleo type diet will not help you feel better, lose weight, or even become healthier (any diet can do that -- just ask a vegan), but the anthropologist in me feels compelled to point out that there's no "one way" we're supposed to eat, feel, or live.

Humans Rejoice!

almeeker 07-31-2010 02:24 AM

Well put Sailordoom!!! While I'm not an archeologist, I do love a good documentary or book on Paleolithic theory. Whenever I come across a theory on eating "like they did 500 or 5,000 years ago", I think to myself that it may sound plausible on the surface but what to we really know about what they ate? We know about some of the animal bones and/or shells found in trash dump sites and we might find seeds of some sort, but I would bet we can't even begin to fathom many of the foods they ate or the processes by which they prepared them. It's also quite possible they ate things we would be repulsed by like insects, larvae, maybe even dung or toenails. Even in reading accounts of North American settlers, it's very clear they ate seasonally, and rarely consumed enough fruits and vegetables by today's standards.

So like you, I remain somewhat skeptical over the absolute validity of those diets, although I suspect there are good points to all of them. I practice something very simple for choosing the foods we eat, basically if I can grow it, raise it and/or shoot it, there's a good chance it will turn up on our table. However, anything full of sugar, chemicals or ingredients I can't pronounce is out of the question.

midwestj 07-31-2010 04:24 PM

Amen,

I never bought into any one diet being right or wrong, different strokes for different folks. Keep it simple stupid and restrict your calories!

Lizzycritter 08-01-2010 01:37 AM

Asking what's the best diet is like asking what's the best religion. You're going to get a lot of passionate responses that will often directly conflict with one another, and no one answer is right or wrong. At the heart of the matter there are some basic truths (on the food side: cook it yourself, avoid chemicals and prepackaged foods, know what you're eating) but in the end it's about individual choice and what works best for you personally.

stamatiaa 08-01-2010 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 17269)
It's also quite possible they ate things we would be repulsed by like insects, larvae, maybe even dung or toenails. Even in reading accounts of North American settlers, it's very clear they ate seasonally, and rarely consumed enough fruits and vegetables by today's standards.

...and we know that modern day arctic eat all organ meats…nothing of the seal is left that can be eaten. Moreover, if people couldn’t sustain themselves on the local (seasonal) foods, I can only guess, that they were forced to migrate…again, to the extent possible. As any survivor story can tell, people can subsist on (at best) sub-optimal food for quite some time.

Melfawn 08-01-2010 10:37 AM

Glad to see there are some people here who actually know the truth about Atkins. Atkins is not the fat soaked, eat a pound of bacon and a dozen eggs for breakfast, diet that the misinformed and media have promoted in the past. Lioness gave a very good overview of Atkins. Our diets are not carb deficient. We're just choosy about which carbs we eat.


I've tried just about every diet out there and was unsuccessful at all of them. I was constantly hungry, headachy, tired and just plain miserable. I also had madly fluctuating blood sugar levels. About 8 years ago I lost 70 pounds on Atkins...and have kept it off. My cholesterol levels went down to normal. My blood sugar levels went from over 400 to about 100...within one month. Once my body rid itself of the carb overload, I had more energy than I knew what to do with and the foggy, constantly fatigued mental state declined.

There is no one right diet for everyone. We each of our own unique needs and it's up to us to find the right diet that works for us and that we can live with for the rest of our lives.

.

Primal-Lioness 08-03-2010 08:15 AM


Originally Posted by Pixie5477 (Post 17141)
Wow... I should probably keep my mouth shut, but I think everyone is being a little harsh on littlegreenone... First of all, I was on the carb diet for 9 months and it affected my memory and learning processes for a long time after I quit. I'm not saying that would happen to everyone, but it happened to me.

Secondly, I believe that each person has different nutrition and diet needs. There is not one single way to do this correctly. We have to follow our instincts, see what works best with our OWN body.

Third... This is simply a forum. Ideas are shared and each and every individual has the responsibility to interpret what they read and reasearch the facts. Never believe everything you read. That's ridiculous. Especially when it comes to your own body. Everyone is different.

Personally, I have enjoyed hearing different viewpoints and suggestions. I do my research ane experiment to see what works for me. In the end, my diet / lifestyle is a mix and match of many different suggestions and ideas.

While I believe that there are different things that work for different people, i would never come on a public forum and state all of the so-called dangers of an eating plan without having researched it thoroughly first.

I don't have a habit of stating stuff unless I know what I am talking about beforehand. That is the same no matter if I am speaking to someone in person or if I am speaking to someone through and internet forum.

Some people just listen to what the media spouts and go with it.

I don't believe the media. I no longer do Atkins myself, but I believe in the process. I also firmly believe that anyone that has had adverse affects from "doing Atkins" also did not work the plan correctly.

If eating protein, veggies, fruits, nuts, seeds, some dairy, natural fats and some limited whole grains makes someone have adverse affects, then we are all doomed because that is the basis of an all natural eating plan.

rlynn456 08-06-2010 03:01 AM

Just knowing that the creator of the atkins diet died from a heart attack as a result of the diet scares me away from trying it. It just doesnt sound very healthy.

yauncin 08-06-2010 04:30 AM

rlynn456 wrote:

Just knowing that the creator of the atkins diet died from a heart attack as a result of the diet scares me away from trying it. It just doesnt sound very healthy.
snopes.com: Dr. Robert Atkins' Death
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/atk...tkinsdeath.htm

I am not a proponent of the Atkins diet.

vsabino 08-06-2010 04:44 AM

I think the dangers of the Arkins come if you prolong phase I longer than 2 weeks. Any diet that is so restrictive of any one nutritional component should not be prolonged for more than 2 weeks. Think about the Scarsdale too, so high in proteins and so low in sugars, carbs and added fat, it would kill your kidneys if you did it for longer than 2 weeks.
Atkins does not sound healthy to me either, but I think that 2 weeks of any diets cannot hurt anyone (even 2 weeks of total starvation wouldn't kill you).

vsabino 08-06-2010 04:51 AM


Originally Posted by almeeker (Post 16660)
I'm not on Atkins, and I agree completely that it is potentially dangerous over a long period of time. ... ... ... In my opinion living completely on one specific food category can have a damaging impact on your health.

I agree with you that leaving a whole category of nutrient out of your diet for PROLONGED periods of time can be dangerous (most of all because you overconsume other categories, e.g. proteins that then have to go through your kidneys).

tandoorichicken 08-06-2010 07:08 AM


Originally Posted by vsabino (Post 17907)
I agree with you that leaving a whole category of nutrient out of your diet for PROLONGED periods of time can be dangerous (most of all because you overconsume other categories, e.g. proteins that then have to go through your kidneys).

Truthfully, you're not leaving out any category of nutrient when you low-carb. Your body can generate limitless amounts of the glucose it needs to function properly when provided with fat and protein to process. The same can't be said if you decide to substantially reduce fat or protein (technically you do store ingested carbs as fat but only if you eat them to excess; however, even moderate amounts of carbs from starch and grain sources have other significant health effects, such as higher blood glucose and subclinical chronic inflammation).

If you've got healthy kidneys then protein isn't a major concern. Yes, the kidneys have to do more work (increased filtration) when you eat more protein, but this isn't detrimental. And the increased net acid load can be offset by eating plenty of calcium-rich leafy greens.

vsabino 08-06-2010 12:43 PM

The recommended dietary allowance for protein is 69g (males) or 50g (females).

tandoorichicken 08-06-2010 02:29 PM

Then the recommended daily allowance has failed to catch up with the latest science in the field. Understandable, since it's only updated every five years by a government committee, which regularly moves at speeds sure to make a snail proud.

Most research nowadays shows that up to 1g/lb bodyweight is fine for individuals with average activity, while athletes do fine up to 2g/lb bodyweight. I base my dietary/nutritional plans on science, not on committee recommendations. Sometimes even the best trained or most highly-credentialed experts suffer from confirmation bias and a strange refusal to let go of dated science.

vsabino 08-07-2010 09:13 AM

I want to try the Atkins induction for 2 weeks but I'm not sure I know how to calculate the net carbs. I thought you just had to do tot carbs - fibers, but then in the CARAMEL CHOCOLATE PEANUT NOUGAT BAR from Atkins how do they come up with 2g net carbs if the tot carbs are 22g and the fibers 10g?
Also, where do you guys buy the strips?
Thanks!!

tandoorichicken 08-08-2010 07:27 PM


Originally Posted by vsabino (Post 18010)
I want to try the Atkins induction for 2 weeks but I'm not sure I know how to calculate the net carbs. I thought you just had to do tot carbs - fibers, but then in the CARAMEL CHOCOLATE PEANUT NOUGAT BAR from Atkins how do they come up with 2g net carbs if the tot carbs are 22g and the fibers 10g?

Maybe its something about the thermic effect of food? Maybe the process of digesting 10g of fiber increases your rate of metabolism enough to burn off an extra 10g of carbs, leading to 2g of net carb just floating around... This is just a guess.

One thing you could try is to do the Atkins diet phases using whole foods instead of the processed Atkins products. I don't find them to be much better than other processed "health" packaged foods (granted I've never actually eaten any — just looked at the labeling).

notmissingwhitebread 08-09-2010 04:11 AM

@vsabino It's simple don't count the fiber or sugar alcohols. You should know if you eat large amounts of sugar alcohols some of it will be digested.

Oh and you can get the strips in drug stores usually in the diabetic section. good luck!

davej323 08-11-2010 05:10 AM

ketosis test strips
 

Originally Posted by vsabino (Post 18010)
Also, where do you guys buy the strips?
Thanks!!

At the CVS by me, the "Ketostix" ketosis test strips used to be carried in the same section with the pregnancy tests (and other urine test kits), but because of low demand they stopped stocking them regularly and now they have to be ordered as a "no prescription pharmacy special order item." If you can't readily find them in your drug store, just ask for them at the pharmacy counter and be prepared to wait a few days if they have to be ordered. There are also lots of places you can order them online.

Dave
___________________________________________
stats, inspired by Ron

Male, 6'0" tall, 37 y/o

Starting weight, 4/19/10 (started Atkins) = 287
6/16/10 (finished Atkins book & joined Fitday) = 261
latest weight 8/03/10 = 244.5
mini goal (wedding) 9/4/10 = 235
ultimate goal for lifetime maintenance by 4/19/11 (one year mark, 100 pounds loss) = 187
This will be my lightest weight since high school!

CoeyCoey 08-12-2010 05:14 AM

Any diet with phases is a fad diet. Lifestyle change is something you do for life and not just a phase.

And I am sure you all know better than the American Heart Association when it comes to dieting, eh?

High-Protein Diets

vsabino 08-12-2010 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by tandoorichicken (Post 18102)
Maybe its something about the thermic effect of food? Maybe the process of digesting 10g of fiber increases your rate of metabolism enough to burn off an extra 10g of carbs, leading to 2g of net carb just floating around... This is just a guess.

One thing you could try is to do the Atkins diet phases using whole foods instead of the processed Atkins products. I don't find them to be much better than other processed "health" packaged foods (granted I've never actually eaten any — just looked at the labeling).


Yeah I agree, there are TONS of sugar alcohols too in those Atkins bars, not sure why they suggest them (or why they don't make better ones). Better not to eat them at all probably. What about the Atkins protein shakes? They only have 2g net carbs but they probably slow down weight loss as well?

AtkinsIsTheWay4Me 08-13-2010 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by davej323 (Post 18345)
At the CVS by me, the "Ketostix" ketosis test strips used to be carried in the same section with the pregnancy tests (and other urine test kits), but because of low demand they stopped stocking them regularly and now they have to be ordered as a "no prescription pharmacy special order item." If you can't readily find them in your drug store, just ask for them at the pharmacy counter and be prepared to wait a few days if they have to be ordered. There are also lots of places you can order them online.

Dave
___________________________________________
stats, inspired by Ron

Male, 6'0" tall, 37 y/o

Starting weight, 4/19/10 (started Atkins) = 287
6/16/10 (finished Atkins book & joined Fitday) = 261
latest weight 8/03/10 = 244.5
mini goal (wedding) 9/4/10 = 235
ultimate goal for lifetime maintenance by 4/19/11 (one year mark, 100 pounds loss) = 187
This will be my lightest weight since high school!

I have seen them at Target, Walgreens and Walmart.

davej323 08-18-2010 04:33 AM

Don't go away mad, just go away.
 

Originally Posted by CoeyCoey (Post 18441)
Any diet with phases is a fad diet. Lifestyle change is something you do for life and not just a phase.

And I am sure you all know better than the American Heart Association when it comes to dieting, eh?

High-Protein Diets

This argument has become exhausting. Critics love to take one simple fact about the Atkins diet and extrapolate that in to the fact that it must be unhealthy because it just doesn't sound right. In your example, you suggest that Atkins is unhealthy because it has phases. Do I even need to tell you what an incredible over-simplification this is? Furthermore, the phases of the Atkins plan, if followed correctly, are meant to lead to that lifestyle change you are referring to. In fact, someone who feels unsafe about following the more restrictive phases of the plan is free to start in a later phase. Even if someone is following a calorie restriction type of diet plan he/she is going to have to make adjustments to that diet as he/she approaches goal weight. So is your problem just with the terminology, "phases?"

In terms of the AHA recommendations, they are failing to account for a few things. For one, they don't account for the fact that the most severe carbohydrate restriction is only in the first stages of the Atkins plan. They also don't account for the fact that the Atkins plan calls for eating plenty of fiber-rich leafy green vegetables. Even during induction phase, the plan calls for a minimum of 12-15g a day of these type of carbohydrate sources. In my own experience (I am doing a prolonged induction phase until I get to within 10 pounds of my goal weight), I eat broccoli, cauliflower, and spinach every day, and often complement my dinner protein with a garden salad. Finally, they have evidently chosen to completely ignore the multivitamin recommendations from the Atkins plan. That is no surprise, since I am sure many people who follow the plan also choose to ignore the multivitamin recommendation, but that doesn't change the fact that the plan insists that a good multivitamin is essential, especially during induction phase.

If you don't like Atkins because it has phases and because the AHA says that these type of diets need more research, then you are free to choose another eating plan. That doesn't change the fact that Atkins has helped many people who were at great risk of heart disease and diabetes. I fell into that group just six months ago, but have since then lost over 40 pounds, eliminated the need for diabetes medication, and erased nearly every risk factor for heart disease. My blood work is now virtually "normal," and that is because of the Atkins diet. Understand the fact that most people who start the Atkins plan are making a change from an unhealthy lifestyle that often includes suffering from obesity and heart disease risk to one that is devoid of both. Any diet, even Atkins, can be challenging at times, and vague and negative accusations such as those you made are not welcomed in a forum where people need encouragement. As an alternative, I invite you to take your comments to a forum that discusses the type of eating plan you are more comfortable with.

I could provide a link to an article that directly refutes the accusations about the health risks suggested by the AHA, but there are far too many to limit it to just one. I suggest you do a google search for "inuit diet and heart disease," "treating metabolic syndrome with diet," "ketogenic diet and diabetes," "ketosis and weight loss," etc. There is lots of evidence to the contrary out there.

Dave
___________________________________________
stats, inspired by Ron

Male, 6'0" tall, 37 y/o

Starting weight, 4/19/10 (started Atkins) = 287
6/16/10 (finished Atkins book & joined Fitday) = 261
latest weight 8/03/10 = 244.5
mini goal (wedding) 9/4/10 = 235
ultimate goal for lifetime maintenance by 4/19/11 (one year mark, 100 pounds loss) = 187
This will be my lightest weight since high school!

davej323 08-18-2010 04:36 AM


Originally Posted by vsabino (Post 18445)
Yeah I agree, there are TONS of sugar alcohols too in those Atkins bars, not sure why they suggest them (or why they don't make better ones). Better not to eat them at all probably. What about the Atkins protein shakes? They only have 2g net carbs but they probably slow down weight loss as well?

Hey guys, I just wanted to remind you that the Atkins bars, shakes, etc. are meant to be convenience foods for occasional use. Let's not forget that the primary goal of the Atkins plan is to make a switch to a diet consisting of whole, natural foods.

Dave
___________________________________________
stats, inspired by Ron

Male, 6'0" tall, 37 y/o

Starting weight, 4/19/10 (started Atkins) = 287
6/16/10 (finished Atkins book & joined Fitday) = 261
latest weight 8/03/10 = 244.5
mini goal (wedding) 9/4/10 = 235
ultimate goal for lifetime maintenance by 4/19/11 (one year mark, 100 pounds loss) = 187
This will be my lightest weight since high school!

annievaughn 08-18-2010 05:51 AM

I was on Atkins from last August to March of this past year and I honestly had never felt better. After phase I, I was probably eating less meat than most people, but I was eating other sources of protein. The real magic for me was that I it really curbed my appetite. I didn't crave sweets anymore. I did a gradual slide since March, completely stopping in June and have gained about 15 pounds. Like the carb addict I am, I made little deals with myself, for the first couple of months losing control bit by bit, but now I spend most of the day thinking I deserve a treat. I will be starting Atkins again next week, and only hope I'm never stupid enought to stop again. I feel miserable, bloated and hormonal... I ate next to no packaged food while I was on Atkins and tons of veggies, a fair amount of nuts and a small amount of fruits daily. A far cry healthier by any standard than my current diet or the average North American diet.

davej323 08-18-2010 06:05 AM

Second timers unite :)
 

Originally Posted by annievaughn (Post 18956)
I was on Atkins from last August to March of this past year and I honestly had never felt better. After phase I, I was probably eating less meat than most people, but I was eating other sources of protein. The real magic for me was that I it really curbed my appetite. I didn't crave sweets anymore. I did a gradual slide since March, completely stopping in June and have gained about 15 pounds. Like the carb addict I am, I made little deals with myself, for the first couple of months losing control bit by bit, but now I spend most of the day thinking I deserve a treat. I will be starting Atkins again next week, and only hope I'm never stupid enought to stop again. I feel miserable, bloated and hormonal... I ate next to no packaged food while I was on Atkins and tons of veggies, a fair amount of nuts and a small amount of fruits daily. A far cry healthier by any standard than my current diet or the average North American diet.

Best of luck with your second attempt at Atkins, Annie. Don't feel that you are alone in the fact that you slipped back into old habits after losing weight your first time on Atkins. That happens to many people (myself included) who used the plan as a short-term weight loss plan rather than a lifestyle change plan. I have read three different versions of the book, and of all of them I would recommend the latest one (a new atkins for a new you). The biggest changes that I noticed are that it now gives a suggestion for protein intake level and does suggest a calorie limit for people who seem to be hitting a plateau. Since you already found Fitday, you will also find that tracking those calories and protein values is very easy using the food log. That doesn't mean that a previous iteration of the diet won't work, but the new book does go to some length to quell some of the previous concerns that people had about the plan.

Dave
___________________________________________
stats, inspired by Ron

Male, 6'0" tall, 37 y/o

Starting weight, 4/19/10 (started Atkins) = 287
6/16/10 (finished Atkins book & joined Fitday) = 261
latest weight 8/03/10 = 244.5
mini goal (wedding) 9/4/10 = 235
ultimate goal for lifetime maintenance by 4/19/11 (one year mark, 100 pounds loss) = 187
This will be my lightest weight since high school!

Barryman9000 08-21-2010 02:38 AM


Originally Posted by littlegreeneone (Post 16657)
Hello Everyone,
I've noticed a lot of threads regarding the Atkins diet. I just hope that all who follow this diet understand the SERIOUS health concerns associated with it.

First of all, your body and your brain need carbs to function properly, period. The brain thrives off of glucose, basically sugar from carbs. When there is not enough glycogen to be used by the brain, your body turns to fat stores, which is why many people lose significant amounts of weight on this diet.

However, after a long period of lack of carbohydrates, the liver begins to produce ketone bodies leading to a condition called ketosis. Ketone bodies create an acidic pH in the blood, causing the body to suck calcium out of the bones to neutralized the blood pH.

This kind of diet can stress the liver and kidneys, destroy muscle tissue and lead to weaker bones. Its definitely a quick fix for losing weight fast, but just ask yourself if its really worth the health risks. Remember, Dr. Atkins suffered a heart attack which the American Heart Association linked to the Atkins Diet.

Just in case you were wondering, I choose to follow a raw, vegan diet.

A raw veganist condemning the Atkins diet. How original - YAWN. I find it hilarious that you offer the same old diatribe that raw veganists have been touting for years, and you offer no proof, no studies, nothing. Just an all cap word that's supposed to scare people. You need to do more research before you condemn a diet that's proven to work (see my other post referencing Christopher Gardner Ph.D. from Stanford called "Comparison of different diets").

I also like how you try to hide your disdain for Omnivores (or anyone who eats animals) by citing out of date information and propaganda that attempted to scare people away from Atkins - nice fear tactic.

Regarding your claim about needing carbohydrates to store glucose - Gluconeogenesis: "...results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids. It is one of the two main mechanisms the body uses to keep blood glucose levels from dropping too low (hypoglycemia)."


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